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But the fraud in paper voting happens at another place - often when the results are transmitted to a centralized place.

by s9w 6y ago

IAmEveryone 6y ago
Here in Germany, you’re allowed to stick around and watch the counting up close. I’ve done so, and was able to count along the votes for the two major parties. Six hours later, I checked the spreadsheet on the official website, scrolled to the row for my polling location, and verified these two numbers were identical to my count. Sure, I can only check 1/3rd or so in one of 50,000 polling places. But get just 20 people you trust to do the same, and it becomes statistically unlikely that there is widespread fraud. You can hang out in the polling location for the whole day if you want. If you get there before any voters, you can also check that the ballot box is empty. Each location serves less than 1,000 voters with three volunteer workers, so you’ll always be able to know everything that’s going on. Oh, and the longest wait I’ve ever had to endure myself was less than 5 minutes The only possible problem (aside from Republicans) in the US would be the large number of individual races and ballot initiatives. It works well with five or so. But if you’re voting for ten deputy dog-catchers of the peace, it might get tricky.
- s9w 6y ago
  Good that you did that! But for most locations that is not done. See the last NRW elections where it was later discovered that votes of the voldemord party have been zeroed in many locations. Or the endless stories of tampered mail votes. I'm not against paper voting at all, just saying that they aren't automatic tamper proof.
  - IAmEveryone 6y ago
    There are exactly zero stories of tampered mail-in ballots. Which, I guess, does make them “endless”.
detaro 6y ago
That's why the public observability is so important. Hard to transmit the wrong result if multiple people representing different interest were there and saw the actual result.

But the fraud in paper voting happens at another place - often when the results are transmitted to a centralized place.

by s9w 6y ago

But the fraud in paper voting happens at another place - often when the results are transmitted to a centralized place.

Here in Germany, you’re allowed to stick around and watch the counting up close. I’ve done so, and was able to count along the votes for the two major parties. Six hours later, I checked the spreadsheet on the official website, scrolled to the row for my polling location, and verified these two numbers were identical to my count. Sure, I can only check 1/3rd or so in one of 50,000 polling places. But get just 20 people you trust to do the same, and it becomes statistically unlikely that there is widespread fraud. You can hang out in the polling location for the whole day if you want. If you get there before any voters, you can also check that the ballot box is empty. Each location serves less than 1,000 voters with three volunteer workers, so you’ll always be able to know everything that’s going on. Oh, and the longest wait I’ve ever had to endure myself was less than 5 minutes The only possible problem (aside from Republicans) in the US would be the large number of individual races and ballot initiatives. It works well with five or so. But if you’re voting for ten deputy dog-catchers of the peace, it might get tricky.

s9w 6y ago
Good that you did that! But for most locations that is not done. See the last NRW elections where it was later discovered that votes of the voldemord party have been zeroed in many locations. Or the endless stories of tampered mail votes. I'm not against paper voting at all, just saying that they aren't automatic tamper proof.
- IAmEveryone 6y ago
  There are exactly zero stories of tampered mail-in ballots. Which, I guess, does make them “endless”.

detaro 6y ago

That's why the public observability is so important. Hard to transmit the wrong result if multiple people representing different interest were there and saw the actual result.