4 ms·

Pakistan is a lot of human created issues though. They have the most fertile land in the subcontinent along the indus river. However they have had absolutely no

Pakistan is a lot of human created issues though. They have the most fertile land in the subcontinent along the indus river. However they have had absolutely no population control measures unlike India and Bangladesh which are almost at replacement level fertility. Throw in a backward society, mismanagement, lack of democracy and you get this. My point simply is that the hunger is not merely because of shortage of food.

bzb3 7y ago
For some people, stating that poor countries might be remotely responsible for their own problems is a highly controversial stance.
- newyankee 7y ago
  Yes and No, being from India myself i understand it is complicated. However western views are clouded. What the journalists and observers do not understand is that you cannot apply the same logic you applied to your own country and many good intentioned policies will turn out into tragedy of commons. This has been demonstrated time and again. This is why i have this unpopular opinion that what China did was simply unimaginable. Yes, they have their issues but a proper democracy where nothing moves (e.g. Sardar Sarovar dam on river Narmada was involved in litigation for over 50 years over increasing dam height which submerged some tribal villages, other side of the coin was it increased the irrigated land substantially ) compared to China where they executed more hydrological projects in 10-15 years than probably what the world did in entirety of 20th century. Surely some people were negatively impacted, but the outcome was net positive. We can argue about corruption, few people skimming the benefits but i think the Chinese society bargain with CCP is to ensure jobs, opportunities and development in exchange for no significant revolution. The misplaced idealism and token suggestions and projects that happen in Africa and India are useless. Only strong, difficult decisions that should've been taken decades ago would've made a difference. It is not possible to make everyone happy in one go.
notechback 7y ago
There is no winning with population control measures. Hans Rosling did a great job to spell out the arguments and evidence in his book "Factfulness" which made the charts in most countries. Really recommended reading and incredible enlightening. To give a very short version of his conclusions: the only factor reducing births is reduced child mortality. Better healthcare and generally better economic prospects and birth rates drop on their own - no need for central planning or interventions. The book lays the evidence out extremely well and if you're a person that likes to have his/her worldview challenged I warmly recommend it!
- newyankee 7y ago
  This is a very privileged view coming from someone living in a first world country. I see this argument repeated every time and i have been following Hans Rosling from a very long time. I would like you to invite and stay in India for < 2$ a day in a slum to have your world view changed. Firstly i am not against humane response, but this is such a simplification of the problem created for a a circlejerk in Western academic circles. It is too late anyways.

bzb3 7y ago

For some people, stating that poor countries might be remotely responsible for their own problems is a highly controversial stance.

newyankee 7y ago
Yes and No, being from India myself i understand it is complicated. However western views are clouded. What the journalists and observers do not understand is that you cannot apply the same logic you applied to your own country and many good intentioned policies will turn out into tragedy of commons. This has been demonstrated time and again. This is why i have this unpopular opinion that what China did was simply unimaginable. Yes, they have their issues but a proper democracy where nothing moves (e.g. Sardar Sarovar dam on river Narmada was involved in litigation for over 50 years over increasing dam height which submerged some tribal villages, other side of the coin was it increased the irrigated land substantially ) compared to China where they executed more hydrological projects in 10-15 years than probably what the world did in entirety of 20th century. Surely some people were negatively impacted, but the outcome was net positive. We can argue about corruption, few people skimming the benefits but i think the Chinese society bargain with CCP is to ensure jobs, opportunities and development in exchange for no significant revolution. The misplaced idealism and token suggestions and projects that happen in Africa and India are useless. Only strong, difficult decisions that should've been taken decades ago would've made a difference. It is not possible to make everyone happy in one go.

notechback 7y ago

There is no winning with population control measures. Hans Rosling did a great job to spell out the arguments and evidence in his book "Factfulness" which made the charts in most countries. Really recommended reading and incredible enlightening. To give a very short version of his conclusions: the only factor reducing births is reduced child mortality. Better healthcare and generally better economic prospects and birth rates drop on their own - no need for central planning or interventions. The book lays the evidence out extremely well and if you're a person that likes to have his/her worldview challenged I warmly recommend it!

newyankee 7y ago
This is a very privileged view coming from someone living in a first world country. I see this argument repeated every time and i have been following Hans Rosling from a very long time. I would like you to invite and stay in India for < 2$ a day in a slum to have your world view changed. Firstly i am not against humane response, but this is such a simplification of the problem created for a a circlejerk in Western academic circles. It is too late anyways.