4 ms·

The standard has nothing to do with whether the exploit has been used but whether it is possible. There is no credibly attack an adversary could carry out again

The standard has nothing to do with whether the exploit has been used but whether it is possible. There is no credibly attack an adversary could carry out against the election by exploiting the lack a of voter ID requirement. There are however many proof of concept attacks performed against voting machines every time they are introduced.

darawk 6y ago
No, there is no credible way that a single actor could carry out a large scale attack that way. But there are credible ways that individuals can vote illegally extremely easily, and would never get detected. Secondly, we have no reliable data on how often it occurs, precisely because it's more or less undetectable. There are documented cases of it, that have been caught by luck. And people have tried to do surveys that are probably worthless and unreliable. https://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/29/us/18-are-arrested-in-1997-miami-ballot-fraud.html https://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/29/us/18-are-arrested-in-199... https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-fraud-real-rare/story?id=17213376 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-fraud-real-rare/s... Indeed, the incidence is low. But it is importantly not zero, and the numbers we know are only the ones who got caught. Most democracies require ID to vote. It's an anomaly that we do not. There is no good reason not to require it.
- busymom0 6y ago
  My comment here has links to actual data of people who were caught and prosecuted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22992159 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22992159
- benchaney 6y ago
  It’s not undetectable at all. When you go to vote, you give your name and address, and get crossed off a list. If someone did that fraudulently, it would be noticed when the person who’s identity you stole comes to vote, it is obvious. There is a good reason not to require it. Not everyone who is eligible to vote has an id, or a straightforward way to get one.
  - darawk 6y ago
    > It’s not undetectable at all. When you go to vote, you give your name and address, and get crossed off a list. If someone did that fraudulently, it would be noticed when the person who’s identity you stole comes to vote, it is obvious. Sure. But in most cases where someone would do this, they'd do it knowing the person, and knowing they weren't going to vote, for whatever reason.

darawk 6y ago

No, there is no credible way that a single actor could carry out a large scale attack that way. But there are credible ways that individuals can vote illegally extremely easily, and would never get detected. Secondly, we have no reliable data on how often it occurs, precisely because it's more or less undetectable. There are documented cases of it, that have been caught by luck. And people have tried to do surveys that are probably worthless and unreliable. https://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/29/us/18-are-arrested-in-1997-miami-ballot-fraud.html https://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/29/us/18-are-arrested-in-199... https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-fraud-real-rare/story?id=17213376 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-fraud-real-rare/s... Indeed, the incidence is low. But it is importantly not zero, and the numbers we know are only the ones who got caught. Most democracies require ID to vote. It's an anomaly that we do not. There is no good reason not to require it.

busymom0 6y ago
My comment here has links to actual data of people who were caught and prosecuted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22992159 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22992159
benchaney 6y ago
It’s not undetectable at all. When you go to vote, you give your name and address, and get crossed off a list. If someone did that fraudulently, it would be noticed when the person who’s identity you stole comes to vote, it is obvious. There is a good reason not to require it. Not everyone who is eligible to vote has an id, or a straightforward way to get one.
- darawk 6y ago
  > It’s not undetectable at all. When you go to vote, you give your name and address, and get crossed off a list. If someone did that fraudulently, it would be noticed when the person who’s identity you stole comes to vote, it is obvious. Sure. But in most cases where someone would do this, they'd do it knowing the person, and knowing they weren't going to vote, for whatever reason.