4 ms·

Explicitly explained 'robots can't feel emotion' tropes actively creep me out. It feels like moral abdication. Here's a thing that walks and quacks like a duc

by ethbro 6y ago

Explicitly explained 'robots can't feel emotion' tropes actively creep me out. It feels like moral abdication. Here's a thing that walks and quacks like a duck, but don't worry about it being a duck, because we tell you not to. But maybe that's just me being militantly contrarian. Star Wars occasionally creeps me out too, with its 'these species are okay to murder, these species are not' relativism.

progman32 6y ago
Oddly enough sometimes this makes games more enjoyable. The dissonance adds on another layer of storytelling, even if it's not intended by the authors. A fun persona to assume is Covert Sympathizer (combine this with a "pacifist" run). Or play as a morally bankrupt character - walk a mile in the enemy's shoes, and try to understand your character's motivations and backstory. It's fun. For all their faults, some Bethesda (fallout) and BioWare (first 2 mass effects for sure, haven't played 3) titles are great for this. Of course, this tends to only work if the game's story is actually compelling and the gameplay flexible enough. An overactive imagination helps too :)
ShamelessC 6y ago
The creepiness is actually appealing to me but to each their own. I disagree that it's some type of moral abdication wish fulfillment if that's what you meant. Morals are inherently emotional on some level though so without emotions of course you're going to get some amoral robots. But I'm honestly not talking about Star Wars droids who are regarded as just intelligent enough to be useful but still expendable. I'm talking about AI which are so much more intelligent than humans being placed in human suits and outwitting humans by convincing them they feel something they do not. That's not to say that they don't actually have emotions. They might, as is the case in Westworld. But the emotions they show humans are entirely "perfect acting" used to achieve a goal. In Ex Machina that goal winds up being surprisingly mundane, which I really loved.
- ethbro 6y ago
  Ex Machina is one of my least favorite films of all time. The ending was an incredibly simplistic way to resolve the questions they brought up.
  - ShamelessC 6y ago
    Geez, your least favorite? Even conceding that the ending was unsatisfying that truly boggles my mind. Not that I think it's the best movie ever, but surely it gets credit for being knowledgeable about the subject and having great mood and atmosphere. To each their own though.
    - ethbro 6y ago
      The closest I can describe is that it felt like I watched Blade Runner (director's cut), enjoyed and was invested, and then at the very end Deckard said "I'm a robot" and killed Rachael. I've debated this at length with people, because I know it's a popular film, but felt the same way after re-watching it. It pierces my suspension of disbelief that AI can be created that simultaneously (a) simulates complex behavior & (b) completely lacks self-reflection. Either give Caleb a character flaw (thus justifying his implicit murder by Ava) or have her successfully escape, reflect in the helicopter, turn around, and end the movie with her conflicted after re-landing at the house. Otherwise, I don't see how the ending doesn't reveal the entire plot as a Shyamalan-esque mechanical Turk (ha! or inverse, as the metaphor would be). A filmmaker got us to believe a lie by omitting any contrary evidence? How difficult!

by ethbro 6y ago

progman32 6y ago

Oddly enough sometimes this makes games more enjoyable. The dissonance adds on another layer of storytelling, even if it's not intended by the authors. A fun persona to assume is Covert Sympathizer (combine this with a "pacifist" run). Or play as a morally bankrupt character - walk a mile in the enemy's shoes, and try to understand your character's motivations and backstory. It's fun. For all their faults, some Bethesda (fallout) and BioWare (first 2 mass effects for sure, haven't played 3) titles are great for this. Of course, this tends to only work if the game's story is actually compelling and the gameplay flexible enough. An overactive imagination helps too :)

ShamelessC 6y ago

The creepiness is actually appealing to me but to each their own. I disagree that it's some type of moral abdication wish fulfillment if that's what you meant. Morals are inherently emotional on some level though so without emotions of course you're going to get some amoral robots. But I'm honestly not talking about Star Wars droids who are regarded as just intelligent enough to be useful but still expendable. I'm talking about AI which are so much more intelligent than humans being placed in human suits and outwitting humans by convincing them they feel something they do not. That's not to say that they don't actually have emotions. They might, as is the case in Westworld. But the emotions they show humans are entirely "perfect acting" used to achieve a goal. In Ex Machina that goal winds up being surprisingly mundane, which I really loved.

ethbro 6y ago
Ex Machina is one of my least favorite films of all time. The ending was an incredibly simplistic way to resolve the questions they brought up.
- ShamelessC 6y ago
  Geez, your least favorite? Even conceding that the ending was unsatisfying that truly boggles my mind. Not that I think it's the best movie ever, but surely it gets credit for being knowledgeable about the subject and having great mood and atmosphere. To each their own though.
  - ethbro 6y ago
    The closest I can describe is that it felt like I watched Blade Runner (director's cut), enjoyed and was invested, and then at the very end Deckard said "I'm a robot" and killed Rachael. I've debated this at length with people, because I know it's a popular film, but felt the same way after re-watching it. It pierces my suspension of disbelief that AI can be created that simultaneously (a) simulates complex behavior & (b) completely lacks self-reflection. Either give Caleb a character flaw (thus justifying his implicit murder by Ava) or have her successfully escape, reflect in the helicopter, turn around, and end the movie with her conflicted after re-landing at the house. Otherwise, I don't see how the ending doesn't reveal the entire plot as a Shyamalan-esque mechanical Turk (ha! or inverse, as the metaphor would be). A filmmaker got us to believe a lie by omitting any contrary evidence? How difficult!