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Let's for simplicity apply Occam's razor: When we didn't have modern birth control solutions cultural rituals were an effective measure against women giving bi

Let's for simplicity apply Occam's razor: When we didn't have modern birth control solutions cultural rituals were an effective measure against women giving birth to seven children from different men. We removed that natural health taxing consequence of having sex. Could you elaborate on your fence a bit because I'm always curious about unknown unknowns to me.

qubex 6y ago
I haven’t stated an opinion on the matter, I’m just cautioning against these offhanded remarks about massive societal re-engineering. Though your example is telling, actually. Humans are fairly unusual insofar as females do not have significant observable markers of being fertile or not (in the animal example, “in heat”). So you’d really have to go back and look at why evolution selected for this particular characteristic and what its consequences were, how it influenced sexual norms, and only then layer on the consideration you make about contraception. And yes, this is vastly contentious, and no, we are not going to solve it in the footnotes of a tech-centric forum. But my message was intended to be more general.
- lowdose 6y ago
  Fair enough. My point was coming more from the view that we still treat women like second class people. 600 million women were married before they reached 18. 200 million women have experience genital mutilation so I think it fair to say in most cultures the accepted behavior of women is severely restricted in every possible way. The women I met have all surprised me with a daily desire for sex activity. Many of them have had slut shaming experiences while growing up.
  - qubex 6y ago
    Again, a bit of a sweeping (and false) perception informed by our local historical and cultural context. There is strong anthropological evidence that for dozens of millennia matriarchal societies were the norm. This survived well into the pre-colonial era in Africa. It just appears that way because patriarchal structures have dominated for most of the recent past (~4000-5000 years), and because this period coincides with the historical record... again, is this a quirk or a consequence, and in the latter case, which way does causation flow?
    - lowdose 6y ago
      We have no written records about the period you mention so I cannot imagine how strong this evidence is. Africa's population is for the majority practicing the Islam since a millennium before the colonial era, and that's a religion with a classical patriarchal society structure. While I have been very charitable in my interpretation of your arguments. You keep using straw man arguments in our discussion again and again. You literally shift the goal post with every comment you make, I think this is an inferior way of discourse. I have seen comments in the past that were a lot more impressive, expressing thoughts of deep thinking. This has not been your best work and decide not to engage anymore with you on this topic.

qubex 6y ago

I haven’t stated an opinion on the matter, I’m just cautioning against these offhanded remarks about massive societal re-engineering. Though your example is telling, actually. Humans are fairly unusual insofar as females do not have significant observable markers of being fertile or not (in the animal example, “in heat”). So you’d really have to go back and look at why evolution selected for this particular characteristic and what its consequences were, how it influenced sexual norms, and only then layer on the consideration you make about contraception. And yes, this is vastly contentious, and no, we are not going to solve it in the footnotes of a tech-centric forum. But my message was intended to be more general.

lowdose 6y ago
Fair enough. My point was coming more from the view that we still treat women like second class people. 600 million women were married before they reached 18. 200 million women have experience genital mutilation so I think it fair to say in most cultures the accepted behavior of women is severely restricted in every possible way. The women I met have all surprised me with a daily desire for sex activity. Many of them have had slut shaming experiences while growing up.
- qubex 6y ago
  Again, a bit of a sweeping (and false) perception informed by our local historical and cultural context. There is strong anthropological evidence that for dozens of millennia matriarchal societies were the norm. This survived well into the pre-colonial era in Africa. It just appears that way because patriarchal structures have dominated for most of the recent past (~4000-5000 years), and because this period coincides with the historical record... again, is this a quirk or a consequence, and in the latter case, which way does causation flow?
  - lowdose 6y ago
    We have no written records about the period you mention so I cannot imagine how strong this evidence is. Africa's population is for the majority practicing the Islam since a millennium before the colonial era, and that's a religion with a classical patriarchal society structure. While I have been very charitable in my interpretation of your arguments. You keep using straw man arguments in our discussion again and again. You literally shift the goal post with every comment you make, I think this is an inferior way of discourse. I have seen comments in the past that were a lot more impressive, expressing thoughts of deep thinking. This has not been your best work and decide not to engage anymore with you on this topic.