5 ms·

I’m so sick of these hatchet jobs on long dead people. If you are not empathetic enough to put yourself in the position of a different society, you’re probably

by nscalf 6y ago

I’m so sick of these hatchet jobs on long dead people. If you are not empathetic enough to put yourself in the position of a different society, you’re probably not empathic enough to criticize a persons character. Additionally, I don’t care if he was sexist. We don’t like Feynman because he was a feminist. We like Feynman because he led the charge in scientific discovery and progress. No one is perfect.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
at_a_remove 6y ago
And curiously no mention of the time a girlfriend faked a pregnancy, got the abortion money from him, and bought some furniture. These folks are so selective in what they present, and the slant never changes.
- cheez 6y ago
  Man, he's lucky she just faked it.
adamsea 6y ago
For context, this is the _entirety_ of the portion of the article which critiques Feynman's behavior towards women. It's not even 1/5 of the article. "In high school, though Feynman excelled in academics, he began to foster insecurities around masculinity. Later in life this would curdle into juvenile braggadocio and poisonous attitudes towards women, with him making degrading remarks about those he met, and which persisted throughout his life. Such behavior is chronicled in a notorious chapter of his autobiography, Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman! (“I adopted the attitude that those bar girls are all bitches, that they aren’t worth anything, and all they’re in there for is to get you to buy them a drink, and they’re not going to give you a goddamn thing”). Yet, this markedly contrasted with his unwavering respect for the many talented women he supported: starting with his sister and including his first wife Arline. He was impressed and influenced by Arline’s skills as an artist and music teacher. The marriage ended tragically early when Arline died of tuberculosis. Years later, Feynman leant valuable support to the Blake scholar Jenijoy La Belle, the first female faculty appointment at Caltech, who had been denied tenure. One of the few professors outside of the humanities who came to her defence, he published an influential letter of support in the campus newspaper, and thanks in part to this, she received tenure and enjoyed a long career." I'm confused. The article is 90% about his career as a scientist, and is nothing but laudatory. 10%, if that, is about his relationships with women, and even the critique given there is tempered w/the observation that he had a strong and loving relationship with his wife. So, how is this a hatchet job? Reads more like a normal biographical article. What exactly is your critique here?
- westoncb 6y ago
  It's already been pointed out elsewhere in the comments, but the quote about "those bar girls are all bitches" is badly taken out of context, since that was something he'd said in connection with a thought experiment he was performing.
swsieber 6y ago
"The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there, don't be an ugly tourist. "
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  The only time this quote seems to be used is on blogs and forums when people are trying to convince others to stay in the Mormon church. Is that what you're quoting or is there some other origin to this phrase?
  - swsieber 6y ago
    That is indeed where I picked up the phrase. I like it quite a bit because of widely applicable it is. Edit: I think it was from this address: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/broadcasts/face-to-face/cook?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/broadcasts/face-to-face/... I haven't come across it other places, but it doesn't surprise me.
  - gjm11 6y ago
    The first bit ("The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there") is from L P Hartley's novel "The Go-between". The "ugly tourist" bit is a later addition. (Very likely you already knew this and were asking about the "ugly tourist" part.)
    - swsieber 6y ago
      I didn't know that, so thanks for commenting! :)

by nscalf 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

at_a_remove 6y ago

And curiously no mention of the time a girlfriend faked a pregnancy, got the abortion money from him, and bought some furniture. These folks are so selective in what they present, and the slant never changes.

cheez 6y ago
Man, he's lucky she just faked it.

adamsea 6y ago

For context, this is the _entirety_ of the portion of the article which critiques Feynman's behavior towards women. It's not even 1/5 of the article. "In high school, though Feynman excelled in academics, he began to foster insecurities around masculinity. Later in life this would curdle into juvenile braggadocio and poisonous attitudes towards women, with him making degrading remarks about those he met, and which persisted throughout his life. Such behavior is chronicled in a notorious chapter of his autobiography, Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman! (“I adopted the attitude that those bar girls are all bitches, that they aren’t worth anything, and all they’re in there for is to get you to buy them a drink, and they’re not going to give you a goddamn thing”). Yet, this markedly contrasted with his unwavering respect for the many talented women he supported: starting with his sister and including his first wife Arline. He was impressed and influenced by Arline’s skills as an artist and music teacher. The marriage ended tragically early when Arline died of tuberculosis. Years later, Feynman leant valuable support to the Blake scholar Jenijoy La Belle, the first female faculty appointment at Caltech, who had been denied tenure. One of the few professors outside of the humanities who came to her defence, he published an influential letter of support in the campus newspaper, and thanks in part to this, she received tenure and enjoyed a long career." I'm confused. The article is 90% about his career as a scientist, and is nothing but laudatory. 10%, if that, is about his relationships with women, and even the critique given there is tempered w/the observation that he had a strong and loving relationship with his wife. So, how is this a hatchet job? Reads more like a normal biographical article. What exactly is your critique here?

westoncb 6y ago
It's already been pointed out elsewhere in the comments, but the quote about "those bar girls are all bitches" is badly taken out of context, since that was something he'd said in connection with a thought experiment he was performing.

swsieber 6y ago

"The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there, don't be an ugly tourist. "

oh_sigh 6y ago
The only time this quote seems to be used is on blogs and forums when people are trying to convince others to stay in the Mormon church. Is that what you're quoting or is there some other origin to this phrase?
- swsieber 6y ago
  That is indeed where I picked up the phrase. I like it quite a bit because of widely applicable it is. Edit: I think it was from this address: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/broadcasts/face-to-face/cook?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/broadcasts/face-to-face/... I haven't come across it other places, but it doesn't surprise me.
- gjm11 6y ago
  The first bit ("The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there") is from L P Hartley's novel "The Go-between". The "ugly tourist" bit is a later addition. (Very likely you already knew this and were asking about the "ugly tourist" part.)
  - swsieber 6y ago
    I didn't know that, so thanks for commenting! :)