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The series is just a bunch of propagandist BS in a very nice package. The amazing number of factual errors given that not only documents but documentary footage

by egao1980 6y ago

The series is just a bunch of propagandist BS in a very nice package. The amazing number of factual errors given that not only documents but documentary footage are available along with internationally verified reports.

verelo 6y ago
Can you outline a few for us?
- acidburnNSA 6y ago
  I can do one! At one point they send in three people in scuba suits to drain the water out of the suppression pool. It is said that if the core falls into the water, a steam explosion with the force of (I believe it was) 4 megatonnes would occur, rendering Europe uninhabitable for decades. Well, it turns out that if you postulate a fully liquid chernobyl fuel core and take its heat capacity and use that to vaporize an infinite supply of water (an easy worst-case thermodynamic calculation), you can see that this estimate was off by roughly 5 orders of magnitude. Someone said it best along the lines of: "if that were true, Hawaii would be blown off the face of the map multiple times daily." Classic scare-mongering dramatic BS.
  - Symmetry 6y ago
    Yeah, that was unfortunate. An engineer really did say that at a similar meeting but they were very wrong and everybody quickly realized they were wrong.
- lostmsu 6y ago
  For one, the whole story about silencing the reactor flaw in secret libraries by KGB was made up, AFAIK.
  - egao1980 6y ago
    +1, other countries had similar or worse design flaws. Chernobyl is a major human error incident in some way similar to Fukusima.
  - loulou24 6y ago
    Yes!! An article by two engineers critical of RMBK's design had been published long before. In 'Kommunist' no less (the Central Committee's journal). Source: Adam Curtis documentary 'A is for Atom' (1992) KGB censorship is not needed, societies rarely listen to what alarmists/cassandras have to say anyway.
  - truth_be_told 6y ago
    Thank you! The series really went overboard with the negative KGB paintbrush.
- egao1980 6y ago
  Presented in random order: - Helicopter fell after entangling the rotor blades 6 months after the events; - Scuba divers knew the layout of the station, there were ankle high of water and 2 of them are still alive, third died of unrelated causes; - Legasov was talking to Scherbina about failures of evacuation during https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident and not about how reactor works as it was common knowledge and Scherbina was experienced engineer who supervised energy sector in USSR; - there were no forced labor neither for miner nor soldiers; - miners knew and well respected Schadov, who was a miner himself. Needless to mention that he never came to any of the mines - there was a broadcast message that called for volonteers. - Miners were enthusiastic and well compensated - they competed to go to the shaft. And they used proper tools. Documentary video exists. - Vodka drinking in the middle of the harshest prohibition in Russian history. People could not get ANY alcohol for weddings still series shows vodka drinking on a high security object; - Cherenkov radiation couldn't be visible in that situation; - evacuation was swift and well organized; - Legasov was not doing all the calculations alone he was a head of a whole institute; - In helicopter scene Scherbina not only knew how reactor works but could not threaten Legasov as a) he can't order soldiers because chain of command b) Legasov has roughly the same political standing in USSR. Not to mention that Scherbina was quite nice person and was focussed on a problem at hand. I can continue...
  - eunoia 6y ago
    > 2 of them are still alive, third died of unrelated causes; I’ve seen a number of different ends (continuations?) posited for these 3 guys. I tried to research and found about as much evidence that they lived happily ever after as they died immediately (i.e it’s a black hole of conjecture based on the particular writer’s feelings towards the Soviet Union). Can you point me towards evidence?
    - blix 6y ago
      Here's an inteview with one of them from 2019 [1], which would be pretty hard if he immediately died. I have never found any piece of evidence that they immediately died; most sources that say this seem to draw it from the HBO series as if it were a documentary. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqOo3Rp7rCE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqOo3Rp7rCE
amaccuish 6y ago
Correct. A nice series so western viewers can feel better about themselves and superior.
- Shivetya 6y ago
  to be honest I thought it did a good job of representing the fact their are heroes in all nations and in the end we are all the same. People bound up in world of incompetents and those who fix it and the everyday people who knowingly step into harms way because they know no other response.
mordae 6y ago
For me the miniseries nicely illustrated the fact that motivated reasoning will eventually clash with the physical reality and the costs may be pretty high. The risk is especially high when the system enables coercion or manipulation to take place instead of persuasion, because motivated reasoning of a single actor with better access to the means of coercion or manipulation (typically a higher-positioned figure in hierarchical arrangements) might be acted upon regardless of its relation to the objective reality, as with Dyatlov. On the other hand, some situations cannot be fully grokked by everyone given the objective constraints. Delegating decision-making is essential in such situations, thus Legasov. What a predicament!
truth_be_told 6y ago
>The series is just a bunch of propagandist BS in a very nice package Exactly! The series very cleverly blends fact with fiction (suggestions/nudges/omissions/conspiracy theories) to give an illusion of how everything was the fault of the scheming Soviets. It was quite enjoyable but viewers interested in veracity should consult other sources.

verelo 6y ago

Can you outline a few for us?

acidburnNSA 6y ago
I can do one! At one point they send in three people in scuba suits to drain the water out of the suppression pool. It is said that if the core falls into the water, a steam explosion with the force of (I believe it was) 4 megatonnes would occur, rendering Europe uninhabitable for decades. Well, it turns out that if you postulate a fully liquid chernobyl fuel core and take its heat capacity and use that to vaporize an infinite supply of water (an easy worst-case thermodynamic calculation), you can see that this estimate was off by roughly 5 orders of magnitude. Someone said it best along the lines of: "if that were true, Hawaii would be blown off the face of the map multiple times daily." Classic scare-mongering dramatic BS.
- Symmetry 6y ago
  Yeah, that was unfortunate. An engineer really did say that at a similar meeting but they were very wrong and everybody quickly realized they were wrong.
lostmsu 6y ago
For one, the whole story about silencing the reactor flaw in secret libraries by KGB was made up, AFAIK.
- egao1980 6y ago
  +1, other countries had similar or worse design flaws. Chernobyl is a major human error incident in some way similar to Fukusima.
- loulou24 6y ago
  Yes!! An article by two engineers critical of RMBK's design had been published long before. In 'Kommunist' no less (the Central Committee's journal). Source: Adam Curtis documentary 'A is for Atom' (1992) KGB censorship is not needed, societies rarely listen to what alarmists/cassandras have to say anyway.
- truth_be_told 6y ago
  Thank you! The series really went overboard with the negative KGB paintbrush.
egao1980 6y ago
Presented in random order: - Helicopter fell after entangling the rotor blades 6 months after the events; - Scuba divers knew the layout of the station, there were ankle high of water and 2 of them are still alive, third died of unrelated causes; - Legasov was talking to Scherbina about failures of evacuation during https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident and not about how reactor works as it was common knowledge and Scherbina was experienced engineer who supervised energy sector in USSR; - there were no forced labor neither for miner nor soldiers; - miners knew and well respected Schadov, who was a miner himself. Needless to mention that he never came to any of the mines - there was a broadcast message that called for volonteers. - Miners were enthusiastic and well compensated - they competed to go to the shaft. And they used proper tools. Documentary video exists. - Vodka drinking in the middle of the harshest prohibition in Russian history. People could not get ANY alcohol for weddings still series shows vodka drinking on a high security object; - Cherenkov radiation couldn't be visible in that situation; - evacuation was swift and well organized; - Legasov was not doing all the calculations alone he was a head of a whole institute; - In helicopter scene Scherbina not only knew how reactor works but could not threaten Legasov as a) he can't order soldiers because chain of command b) Legasov has roughly the same political standing in USSR. Not to mention that Scherbina was quite nice person and was focussed on a problem at hand. I can continue...
- eunoia 6y ago
  > 2 of them are still alive, third died of unrelated causes; I’ve seen a number of different ends (continuations?) posited for these 3 guys. I tried to research and found about as much evidence that they lived happily ever after as they died immediately (i.e it’s a black hole of conjecture based on the particular writer’s feelings towards the Soviet Union). Can you point me towards evidence?
  - blix 6y ago
    Here's an inteview with one of them from 2019 [1], which would be pretty hard if he immediately died. I have never found any piece of evidence that they immediately died; most sources that say this seem to draw it from the HBO series as if it were a documentary. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqOo3Rp7rCE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqOo3Rp7rCE

amaccuish 6y ago

Correct. A nice series so western viewers can feel better about themselves and superior.

Shivetya 6y ago
to be honest I thought it did a good job of representing the fact their are heroes in all nations and in the end we are all the same. People bound up in world of incompetents and those who fix it and the everyday people who knowingly step into harms way because they know no other response.

mordae 6y ago

For me the miniseries nicely illustrated the fact that motivated reasoning will eventually clash with the physical reality and the costs may be pretty high. The risk is especially high when the system enables coercion or manipulation to take place instead of persuasion, because motivated reasoning of a single actor with better access to the means of coercion or manipulation (typically a higher-positioned figure in hierarchical arrangements) might be acted upon regardless of its relation to the objective reality, as with Dyatlov. On the other hand, some situations cannot be fully grokked by everyone given the objective constraints. Delegating decision-making is essential in such situations, thus Legasov. What a predicament!

truth_be_told 6y ago

>The series is just a bunch of propagandist BS in a very nice package Exactly! The series very cleverly blends fact with fiction (suggestions/nudges/omissions/conspiracy theories) to give an illusion of how everything was the fault of the scheming Soviets. It was quite enjoyable but viewers interested in veracity should consult other sources.