4 ms·

> I really dislike Nix/NixOS I'm honestly curious why you dislike it

kick 7y ago
In order from most to least, all concerns but some that I'm usually happy overlooking: * Poorly-implemented versions of theoretically-interesting ideas * Poor implementations, technically * Lacking merit compared to its best competitor (insofar as free software has competitors) * Lacking merit compared to its main competitor * Deep philosophical and moral disagreements * Toxic and obnoxious community This isn't to say it's bad, of course. It's just something I dislike; I seek no wider war.
- the_duke 7y ago
  That doesn't really answer much, can you be more specific? Why is it poorly implemented, what are the problems? Who is the competitor, and why is it better? (Guix?) What are the philosophical issues? How is the community toxic and obnoxius? Personally there are a few things that annoy me about Nix, mostly implementation and documentation wise. Also, the language is pretty odd and the CLI UX is somewhat messy. But the community (IRC / Discourse) has been pretty helpful for me thus far.
  - kick 7y ago
    I'd prefer not to be more specific, actually; at least on most points. Complaining about popular new things in threads about them is a trend I find irritating, and using a thread about how someone finds something cool to give reasoning as to why it's distasteful is completely off-topic and kind of rude, anyhow. However, I will note that I listed two competitors, not one, and while I think both have more merit, I only think the best is worth using out of all three. I'll point out that it's not Guix, and that it's older than Nix, but I don't think advertising alternatives is a particularly nice thing to do in a thread about any given piece of free software.
    - the_duke 7y ago
      Fair enough, although I don't see how mentioning the names of competitors and giving well-reasoned comparison is somehow worse than calling a project "poorly implemented", "lacking merit", and having a "toxic and obnoxious community" without providing any verifiable arguments.
      - kick 7y ago
        All three of those can be easily written off by anyone who likes the project. Claim that 4chan is toxic; people who like 4chan will think you're an idiot, but it won't really ruin their mood. Point out specific examples of their favorite board criticizing something they love, however, and they probably will feel upset for one reason or another.
        zxexz 7y ago
        But in a public forum such as this, calling a community toxic can, and will, keep people from looking in to to the associated project any further. If you have specifics, you should say them - public spaces are the right place to out toxic communities. But, people on the internet throwing around words like "toxic" without substantiation can be really damaging to communities by preventing growth. Please substantiate - I'm not involved in the Nix community much but whenever I've been in the #nixos IRC channel, they've been super helpful.
    - catern 7y ago
      >Complaining about popular new things in threads about them is a trend I find irritating It's a little too late for that. Complaining in a vague way across several comments and then not elaborating further is, I think, definitely more rude than making some concrete complaint (like the original comment's complaint about learning something new)
      - kick 7y ago
        I didn't complain, and I didn't even criticize it in "several" comments; the only comment with anything resembling criticism is the second one I wrote, and it's just a single comment! I said I didn't like something as a way of making it clear that I'm not trying to brigade for Nix and don't really have any incentive to defend it, and I gave an argument on why I believe the initial comment was being unfairly negative to Nix. I was then asked why I disliked Nix. I made no complaints, I just listed my opinions. When I was asked to go into actual complaints implying fact rather than personal opinions, I said I'd prefer not to.

kick 7y ago

In order from most to least, all concerns but some that I'm usually happy overlooking: * Poorly-implemented versions of theoretically-interesting ideas * Poor implementations, technically * Lacking merit compared to its best competitor (insofar as free software has competitors) * Lacking merit compared to its main competitor * Deep philosophical and moral disagreements * Toxic and obnoxious community This isn't to say it's bad, of course. It's just something I dislike; I seek no wider war.

the_duke 7y ago
That doesn't really answer much, can you be more specific? Why is it poorly implemented, what are the problems? Who is the competitor, and why is it better? (Guix?) What are the philosophical issues? How is the community toxic and obnoxius? Personally there are a few things that annoy me about Nix, mostly implementation and documentation wise. Also, the language is pretty odd and the CLI UX is somewhat messy. But the community (IRC / Discourse) has been pretty helpful for me thus far.
- kick 7y ago
  I'd prefer not to be more specific, actually; at least on most points. Complaining about popular new things in threads about them is a trend I find irritating, and using a thread about how someone finds something cool to give reasoning as to why it's distasteful is completely off-topic and kind of rude, anyhow. However, I will note that I listed two competitors, not one, and while I think both have more merit, I only think the best is worth using out of all three. I'll point out that it's not Guix, and that it's older than Nix, but I don't think advertising alternatives is a particularly nice thing to do in a thread about any given piece of free software.
  - the_duke 7y ago
    Fair enough, although I don't see how mentioning the names of competitors and giving well-reasoned comparison is somehow worse than calling a project "poorly implemented", "lacking merit", and having a "toxic and obnoxious community" without providing any verifiable arguments.
    - kick 7y ago
      All three of those can be easily written off by anyone who likes the project. Claim that 4chan is toxic; people who like 4chan will think you're an idiot, but it won't really ruin their mood. Point out specific examples of their favorite board criticizing something they love, however, and they probably will feel upset for one reason or another.
      - zxexz 7y ago
        But in a public forum such as this, calling a community toxic can, and will, keep people from looking in to to the associated project any further. If you have specifics, you should say them - public spaces are the right place to out toxic communities. But, people on the internet throwing around words like "toxic" without substantiation can be really damaging to communities by preventing growth. Please substantiate - I'm not involved in the Nix community much but whenever I've been in the #nixos IRC channel, they've been super helpful.
  - catern 7y ago
    >Complaining about popular new things in threads about them is a trend I find irritating It's a little too late for that. Complaining in a vague way across several comments and then not elaborating further is, I think, definitely more rude than making some concrete complaint (like the original comment's complaint about learning something new)
    - kick 7y ago
      I didn't complain, and I didn't even criticize it in "several" comments; the only comment with anything resembling criticism is the second one I wrote, and it's just a single comment! I said I didn't like something as a way of making it clear that I'm not trying to brigade for Nix and don't really have any incentive to defend it, and I gave an argument on why I believe the initial comment was being unfairly negative to Nix. I was then asked why I disliked Nix. I made no complaints, I just listed my opinions. When I was asked to go into actual complaints implying fact rather than personal opinions, I said I'd prefer not to.