4 ms·

Corbyn was elected Labour leader in 2015, reelected in 2016 and subsequently lost 2 general elections and torched 8% of the Labour vote. It's abundantly clear t

by gm3dmo 6y ago

Corbyn was elected Labour leader in 2015, reelected in 2016 and subsequently lost 2 general elections and torched 8% of the Labour vote. It's abundantly clear that his unpopularity extends to a much wider group than the Labour establishment. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Jeremy_Corbyn https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Jeremy_...

AndrewBissell 6y ago
Labour came very close to winning in 2017, a fact which your rather terse summary glosses over. Who knows what might have happened if the Blairite right wing of the Labour Party hadn't been actively sabotaging Corbyn's campaign.
- ukpo 6y ago
  Probably a generally higher quality of life, in a country run by people who genuinely care about the wellbeing of other people. Unlike the current lot of soulless right-wing ghouls. Corbyn was the best Prime Minister we never had.
- Wildgoose 6y ago
  Labour may have done much better than expected in 2017, but they were still 55+ seats behind the Tories, which is nothing like very close to winning. The Tories won 317 seats (318 including the Speaker), while Labour won 262 seats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_el...
  - pmachinery 6y ago
    The election isn't simply between those two parties, and with just a handful of seats going differently Labour could have had its first Prime Minister since 2010. That's a win.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Parliamentary elections are more complicated than that, had Labour won three or four most seats they would have likely been in power as a coalition with other parties of the left. This might have quite literally cost Labour the election.
    - thu2111 6y ago
      Has Labour ever been in coalition with anyone for an extended period? Reality is Labour lost the election despite going up against an incredibly weak opposition and basically refusing to discuss or take a position on Brexit, which was an irresponsible form of electioneering. When faced with a competent opposition they took the same approach and were wiped out. That's on Corbyn.
      - AndrewBissell 6y ago
        I tend to agree that Corbyn trying to straddle the Remain/Leave camps may have been a fatal error, but who knows whether he would have felt it necessary if he had not been kneecapped in 2017 and won the election. One also shouldn't dismiss the role of the UK press in amplifying "anti-Semitism" and various other smears (like the "tankie" used on this very thread) against Corbyn.
    - gm3dmo 6y ago
      We would have won if it wasn't for ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth
- gm3dmo 6y ago
  https://www.ft.com/content/2178afb2-7b64-11e6-ae24-f193b105145e https://www.ft.com/content/2178afb2-7b64-11e6-ae24-f193b1051... Looks to me like Corbyn never showed any party loyalty. He sewed the wind.
  - AndrewBissell 6y ago
    It's funny how "party loyalty" is always defined as fealty to Labour's liberal rightist faction. Given that they were actively undermining him, they weren't entitled to his loyalty at any rate. Corbyn was trying to make Labour into something better, just as Bernie Sanders was trying to do the same with the Democratic Party in the US. This is always mischaracterized by tribalist partisans and sycophants as "party disloyalty."
    - gm3dmo 6y ago
      Which faction of Labour won 3 elections in a row?
      - AndrewBissell 6y ago
        What's the point of winning elections just to enact your opposition's policies?
        gm3dmo 6y ago
        This is education, the centrepiece of The Labour Party's 1997 manifesto: Cut class sizes to 30 or under for 5, 6 and 7 year-olds Nursery places for all four year-olds Attack low standards in schools Access to computer technology Lifelong learning through a new University for Industry More spending on education as the cost of unemployment falls Can you demonstrate where the opposition had those policies?
        pmachinery 6y ago
        This is education, the centrepiece of The Labour Party's 1997 manifesto: Just weeks before polling day, Tony Blair said: “Labour has no plans to introduce tuition fees for higher education.” Labour’s Robin Cook added: “We are quite clear that tuition costs must be met by the state.” just two months after becoming prime minister, Blair went ahead and introduced tuition fees.[0] > Can you demonstrate where the opposition had those policies? True, in opposition the Tories were actually opposed to Labour's tuition fees, condemning them as an attack on the poor and even promising to scrap them. They know a good, juicy Tory policy when they see it though, and under David Cameron they reversed their pretend opposition, kept tuition fees and increased them. So it does a serious disservice to Blair to say he merely copied Tory policies, when his Labour Party so out-Toried the Tories, they were reduced to copying him. [0] https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-students-have-been-misled-and-lied-to-for-20-years https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-studen...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by gm3dmo 6y ago

AndrewBissell 6y ago

Labour came very close to winning in 2017, a fact which your rather terse summary glosses over. Who knows what might have happened if the Blairite right wing of the Labour Party hadn't been actively sabotaging Corbyn's campaign.

ukpo 6y ago
Probably a generally higher quality of life, in a country run by people who genuinely care about the wellbeing of other people. Unlike the current lot of soulless right-wing ghouls. Corbyn was the best Prime Minister we never had.
Wildgoose 6y ago
Labour may have done much better than expected in 2017, but they were still 55+ seats behind the Tories, which is nothing like very close to winning. The Tories won 317 seats (318 including the Speaker), while Labour won 262 seats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_el...
- pmachinery 6y ago
  The election isn't simply between those two parties, and with just a handful of seats going differently Labour could have had its first Prime Minister since 2010. That's a win.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Parliamentary elections are more complicated than that, had Labour won three or four most seats they would have likely been in power as a coalition with other parties of the left. This might have quite literally cost Labour the election.
  - thu2111 6y ago
    Has Labour ever been in coalition with anyone for an extended period? Reality is Labour lost the election despite going up against an incredibly weak opposition and basically refusing to discuss or take a position on Brexit, which was an irresponsible form of electioneering. When faced with a competent opposition they took the same approach and were wiped out. That's on Corbyn.
    - AndrewBissell 6y ago
      I tend to agree that Corbyn trying to straddle the Remain/Leave camps may have been a fatal error, but who knows whether he would have felt it necessary if he had not been kneecapped in 2017 and won the election. One also shouldn't dismiss the role of the UK press in amplifying "anti-Semitism" and various other smears (like the "tankie" used on this very thread) against Corbyn.
  - gm3dmo 6y ago
    We would have won if it wasn't for ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth
gm3dmo 6y ago
https://www.ft.com/content/2178afb2-7b64-11e6-ae24-f193b105145e https://www.ft.com/content/2178afb2-7b64-11e6-ae24-f193b1051... Looks to me like Corbyn never showed any party loyalty. He sewed the wind.
- AndrewBissell 6y ago
  It's funny how "party loyalty" is always defined as fealty to Labour's liberal rightist faction. Given that they were actively undermining him, they weren't entitled to his loyalty at any rate. Corbyn was trying to make Labour into something better, just as Bernie Sanders was trying to do the same with the Democratic Party in the US. This is always mischaracterized by tribalist partisans and sycophants as "party disloyalty."
  - gm3dmo 6y ago
    Which faction of Labour won 3 elections in a row?
    - AndrewBissell 6y ago
      What's the point of winning elections just to enact your opposition's policies?
      - gm3dmo 6y ago
        This is education, the centrepiece of The Labour Party's 1997 manifesto: Cut class sizes to 30 or under for 5, 6 and 7 year-olds Nursery places for all four year-olds Attack low standards in schools Access to computer technology Lifelong learning through a new University for Industry More spending on education as the cost of unemployment falls Can you demonstrate where the opposition had those policies?
        pmachinery 6y ago
        This is education, the centrepiece of The Labour Party's 1997 manifesto: Just weeks before polling day, Tony Blair said: “Labour has no plans to introduce tuition fees for higher education.” Labour’s Robin Cook added: “We are quite clear that tuition costs must be met by the state.” just two months after becoming prime minister, Blair went ahead and introduced tuition fees.[0] > Can you demonstrate where the opposition had those policies? True, in opposition the Tories were actually opposed to Labour's tuition fees, condemning them as an attack on the poor and even promising to scrap them. They know a good, juicy Tory policy when they see it though, and under David Cameron they reversed their pretend opposition, kept tuition fees and increased them. So it does a serious disservice to Blair to say he merely copied Tory policies, when his Labour Party so out-Toried the Tories, they were reduced to copying him. [0] https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-students-have-been-misled-and-lied-to-for-20-years https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-studen...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]