3 ms·

We've been calling the Confederates rebels since the Civil War, and we're not going to stop. Though you could make the legal argument that States have the right

We've been calling the Confederates rebels since the Civil War, and we're not going to stop. Though you could make the legal argument that States have the right to secede, since the Constitution does not expressly forbid it, and any rights not forbidden are left to the States. But we didn't care at the time. Lincoln didn't give a damn about their right to secede, he wanted to preserve the Union. Who can blame him? It was expedient to call them traitors, because you couldn't really motivate people to fight for the cause of abolishing slavery back then. Not large armies of ordinary people, anyway. So yes, we denied them their right to secede because we didn't care to have the country split in half. I'm glad we did, because they were slavers. Fuck them and their 'states' rights'.

jariel 6y ago
Holy camole I'm not making an argument about 'states rights' and definitely not for the 'Confederate Flag' or for the 'South' - I don't care about any of those things - I'm talking about the term 'Traitor' as historically objective terminology.
- Libeste 6y ago
  When has it not been considered treason?
  - jariel 6y ago
    So the American revolution was just Treason then, right? Is how we should plainly describe it in the history books? And since the movement to abolish slavery in the Empire was already afoot, and slavery was abolished outside the US (within the Empire) shortly after the American revolution - and - George Washington & Co. supported slavery, supported the wide expansion of the slave trade to the point wherein the US was the last place in the 'modern world' to abolish slavery nearly a century later ... Should we commonly refer to Americans as 'Traitors' and Slavers and ban the Stars and Stripes as well? There are definitely a few who would support that. History is complicated and has many perspectives. Flags mean different things to different people for different reasons at different times. Obviously, the Confederate flag is complicated and divisive enough that it shouldn't be used relating to public office especially at the federal level. But to simply imply the Southern states were merely 'Traitors' (as some would have it), would be to use too narrow a lens and misrepresent that part of history. I don't think anyone in 2020 is going to miss out on the act it was largely about slavery.
    - Libeste 6y ago
      Yes. Yes. Maybe you wouldn't have misunderstood it. Which version of the Stars and Stripes? Sure, flags mean different things to different people. No, that doesn't make it complicated, it didn't stop other flags from being banned.

jariel 6y ago

Holy camole I'm not making an argument about 'states rights' and definitely not for the 'Confederate Flag' or for the 'South' - I don't care about any of those things - I'm talking about the term 'Traitor' as historically objective terminology.

Libeste 6y ago
When has it not been considered treason?
- jariel 6y ago
  So the American revolution was just Treason then, right? Is how we should plainly describe it in the history books? And since the movement to abolish slavery in the Empire was already afoot, and slavery was abolished outside the US (within the Empire) shortly after the American revolution - and - George Washington & Co. supported slavery, supported the wide expansion of the slave trade to the point wherein the US was the last place in the 'modern world' to abolish slavery nearly a century later ... Should we commonly refer to Americans as 'Traitors' and Slavers and ban the Stars and Stripes as well? There are definitely a few who would support that. History is complicated and has many perspectives. Flags mean different things to different people for different reasons at different times. Obviously, the Confederate flag is complicated and divisive enough that it shouldn't be used relating to public office especially at the federal level. But to simply imply the Southern states were merely 'Traitors' (as some would have it), would be to use too narrow a lens and misrepresent that part of history. I don't think anyone in 2020 is going to miss out on the act it was largely about slavery.
  - Libeste 6y ago
    Yes. Yes. Maybe you wouldn't have misunderstood it. Which version of the Stars and Stripes? Sure, flags mean different things to different people. No, that doesn't make it complicated, it didn't stop other flags from being banned.