4 ms·

I have to imagine that the US military is the only military in the world that has a history of flying a traitors flag after they defeated them. It makes about a

I have to imagine that the US military is the only military in the world that has a history of flying a traitors flag after they defeated them. It makes about as much sense as flying the anarchist's flag while serving in a state military. I'm wondering as well if the branches use any of the conquered peoples' flags, like various Native American nations. I couldn't find anything on the web about it.

marktangotango 7y ago
> I have to imagine that the US military is the only military in the world that has a history of flying a traitors flag The present article gives no instances of Marine Corp units flying the confederate flag in an official capacity, do you have sources for this? The article is about banning its display such as via tattoos, pickup truck rear windows, apparel like hats and shirts by marine Corp members. Generally these thing are only enforced on base or during deployment. I do know some state run military schools had a history of displaying the confederate flag, but they’re not Federal institutions.
- joecool1029 7y ago
  Apologies, I had conflated the flying of Confederate streamers formerly with the US Army and Navy[1] and later (and still currently) with various state national guards[2]. Also a decent blog post on the topic: https://angrystaffofficer.com/2018/02/13/a-murky-heritage-the-u-s-army-the-civil-war-and-memory/ https://angrystaffofficer.com/2018/02/13/a-murky-heritage-th... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_War_Campaign_Medal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_War_Campaign_Medal [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321951579_Confederate_Service_Campaign_Streamers https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321951579_Confedera...
jariel 7y ago
One of the poorest imaginable ways to frame the subject. 'First Nations' flags are flown in various capacities all over the world, sometimes related to the local national forces. Totems, elements of the local culture, flags are more common than not even in Colonial regalia. Of course, castigation 1/2 of a nation as 'traitors' for seceding from a union is so problematic I wouldn't know where to begin with that.
- linksnapzz 7y ago
  Oh, I wouldn't bother. Just be aware that squealing "racist!" and "traitor!" in the direction of putative (by dint of race & region) wrongthinkers provides a powerful endorphin hit to some. Like nosepicking in toddlers or cribbing in stabled horses.
- joecool1029 7y ago
  > Of course, castigation 1/2 of a nation as 'traitors' for seceding from a union is so problematic I wouldn't know where to begin with that. How else should they be framed? It's a fact that they were a failed traitorous rebellion and their cause was the defense of the institution of slavery. There's nothing to be proud about. >'First Nations' flags are flown in various capacities all over the world, sometimes related to the local national forces. I brought it up because the US conquered native lands and natives serve in the US military today with a semi-autonomous identity (native nations vs. states). They weren't traitors that originally had an obligation to serve in the US military but rather occupied and assimilated as a former foreign power. With that being said: Do they get to fly streamers for their battles from before they were part of the US? It's a legitimate question to which I was asking for a legitimate sourced answer. It's also relevant since there's a large overlap with those later battles and the Civil War.
- Alekhine 7y ago
  We've been calling the Confederates rebels since the Civil War, and we're not going to stop. Though you could make the legal argument that States have the right to secede, since the Constitution does not expressly forbid it, and any rights not forbidden are left to the States. But we didn't care at the time. Lincoln didn't give a damn about their right to secede, he wanted to preserve the Union. Who can blame him? It was expedient to call them traitors, because you couldn't really motivate people to fight for the cause of abolishing slavery back then. Not large armies of ordinary people, anyway. So yes, we denied them their right to secede because we didn't care to have the country split in half. I'm glad we did, because they were slavers. Fuck them and their 'states' rights'.
  - jariel 7y ago
barryparr 7y ago
The Army has at least ten bases named after Confederate officers: https://www.military.com/undertheradar/2018/10/03/ten-army-bases-named-after-confederate-officers.html https://www.military.com/undertheradar/2018/10/03/ten-army-b...

marktangotango 7y ago

> I have to imagine that the US military is the only military in the world that has a history of flying a traitors flag The present article gives no instances of Marine Corp units flying the confederate flag in an official capacity, do you have sources for this? The article is about banning its display such as via tattoos, pickup truck rear windows, apparel like hats and shirts by marine Corp members. Generally these thing are only enforced on base or during deployment. I do know some state run military schools had a history of displaying the confederate flag, but they’re not Federal institutions.

joecool1029 7y ago
Apologies, I had conflated the flying of Confederate streamers formerly with the US Army and Navy[1] and later (and still currently) with various state national guards[2]. Also a decent blog post on the topic: https://angrystaffofficer.com/2018/02/13/a-murky-heritage-the-u-s-army-the-civil-war-and-memory/ https://angrystaffofficer.com/2018/02/13/a-murky-heritage-th... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_War_Campaign_Medal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_War_Campaign_Medal [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321951579_Confederate_Service_Campaign_Streamers https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321951579_Confedera...

jariel 7y ago

One of the poorest imaginable ways to frame the subject. 'First Nations' flags are flown in various capacities all over the world, sometimes related to the local national forces. Totems, elements of the local culture, flags are more common than not even in Colonial regalia. Of course, castigation 1/2 of a nation as 'traitors' for seceding from a union is so problematic I wouldn't know where to begin with that.

linksnapzz 7y ago
Oh, I wouldn't bother. Just be aware that squealing "racist!" and "traitor!" in the direction of putative (by dint of race & region) wrongthinkers provides a powerful endorphin hit to some. Like nosepicking in toddlers or cribbing in stabled horses.
joecool1029 7y ago
> Of course, castigation 1/2 of a nation as 'traitors' for seceding from a union is so problematic I wouldn't know where to begin with that. How else should they be framed? It's a fact that they were a failed traitorous rebellion and their cause was the defense of the institution of slavery. There's nothing to be proud about. >'First Nations' flags are flown in various capacities all over the world, sometimes related to the local national forces. I brought it up because the US conquered native lands and natives serve in the US military today with a semi-autonomous identity (native nations vs. states). They weren't traitors that originally had an obligation to serve in the US military but rather occupied and assimilated as a former foreign power. With that being said: Do they get to fly streamers for their battles from before they were part of the US? It's a legitimate question to which I was asking for a legitimate sourced answer. It's also relevant since there's a large overlap with those later battles and the Civil War.
Alekhine 7y ago
We've been calling the Confederates rebels since the Civil War, and we're not going to stop. Though you could make the legal argument that States have the right to secede, since the Constitution does not expressly forbid it, and any rights not forbidden are left to the States. But we didn't care at the time. Lincoln didn't give a damn about their right to secede, he wanted to preserve the Union. Who can blame him? It was expedient to call them traitors, because you couldn't really motivate people to fight for the cause of abolishing slavery back then. Not large armies of ordinary people, anyway. So yes, we denied them their right to secede because we didn't care to have the country split in half. I'm glad we did, because they were slavers. Fuck them and their 'states' rights'.
- jariel 7y ago

barryparr 7y ago

The Army has at least ten bases named after Confederate officers: https://www.military.com/undertheradar/2018/10/03/ten-army-bases-named-after-confederate-officers.html https://www.military.com/undertheradar/2018/10/03/ten-army-b...