4 ms·

I think some people are commenting from a perspective of a society/environment where a car is basically mandatory, where you cannot really go anywhere or do any

I think some people are commenting from a perspective of a society/environment where a car is basically mandatory, where you cannot really go anywhere or do anything without a car, or where it is at least hopelessly cumbersome to use public transit and dangerous to ride a bicycle. Not just in this discussion, but whenever the subject of transportation and public transit come up. If you asked me ~10 years ago, I could not have imagined not having a car. I finally sold mine 3 years ago and started biking and taking public transit everywhere, and it works just fine. On the rare occasions where I have needed a car (moving apartments, a wedding in the middle of nowhere), rental cars covered my needs. The amount of money I save by not having a car is not trivial. When we go visit my girlfriend's family in southern Germany, renting a car is completely mandatory, it's more or less impossible to do anything without one. So I absolutely understand where people are coming from, you need an environment where public transit and walkability are prioritized for this to work.

AshamedCaptain 7y ago
I have done the opposite direction. I moved from a big city where I just would not even think about getting a car -- it would be just a huge expense that would sit there gathering dust and depreciating faster than I can sneeze. I would spent more time walking to whether I parked it (and finding a place to park it) than I would ever save by driving instead of walking. Then I moved to a smaller city with a larger suburb area. Within 6 months I had bought the car. The last straw was having had to wait an hour for the bus, carrying grocery bags. At the same time, you find parking spots almost everywhere, and walking was not that easy, with longer distances and in many places not even sidewalks. It's just two different worlds, really.
dzhiurgis 7y ago
Why not have both!? Surely you can have city centres (especially old towns) without cars and people living in suburbs, with special needs or whatever to own a car. I'd love to drive to a city centre and then have a walk without the traffic noise! I'd hate taking 90 minutes of bus instead of 20 minute drive.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  > I'd love to drive to a city centre and then have a walk without the traffic noise There's a huge inherent contradiction here though: You are creating the very problem you want to escape from for everyone along your path of travel. land tends to be quite expensive in the city center, and parking is not a good use of it. Are you willing to spend $50 to park your car there to drive to the city center?
  - ghaff 7y ago
    >Are you willing to spend $50 to park your car there to drive to the city center? That's pretty common for people who drive into big cities for the day (or indeed to work for a day). Maybe they park on the outskirts and take transit in. But that takes time and, especially for a family, the savings may not really be worth it.
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      Yeah, that's why I chose that figure; it's roughly what it costs to park for a day here in Manhattan. And that's before the bridge and interstate tolls, if you're coming from the west. To most people it isn't worth it to spend that much, especially because traffic on the bridges and tunnels is usually so bad that the trains are not only cheaper but faster, too.
  - dzhiurgis 7y ago
    Kinda agree but thats a model that works for many places that switched to car free centre. In many cases parking lots already exist in outskirts of the centre. Completely car free city is a pipe dream. Diversity is good.
    - KozmoNau7 7y ago
      The mere presence of cars actively hurts walkability and increases the risk of accidents for pedestrians and cyclists. Cars need special roadways with expensive construction methods, maintenance, signaling and provisions for parking their bulk. This takes up huge amounts of space that could have been used for waking streets, bike paths and attentive urban spaces, instead of large expanses of boring black asphalt. Ask a shop owner whether she would rather have thousands of people in cars driving by her store and not even look at it, or hundreds of pedestrians who stop and look at her display windows. Ask a cafe owner whether he would prefer to have his outside seating right next to a major thoroughfare, or on a busy walking street. Cars actively make environments hostile and uninviting to people.
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
I think some people are commenting from a perspective of a society/environment where a car is basically mandatory, where you cannot really go anywhere or do anything without a car, or where it is at least hopelessly cumbersome to use public transit and dangerous to ride a bicycle. I suspect some of it is political, if you are right leaning then you may well view cycling and public transport as a step towards socialism. It probably doesn't have much to do with the practicalities.

AshamedCaptain 7y ago

I have done the opposite direction. I moved from a big city where I just would not even think about getting a car -- it would be just a huge expense that would sit there gathering dust and depreciating faster than I can sneeze. I would spent more time walking to whether I parked it (and finding a place to park it) than I would ever save by driving instead of walking. Then I moved to a smaller city with a larger suburb area. Within 6 months I had bought the car. The last straw was having had to wait an hour for the bus, carrying grocery bags. At the same time, you find parking spots almost everywhere, and walking was not that easy, with longer distances and in many places not even sidewalks. It's just two different worlds, really.

dzhiurgis 7y ago

Why not have both!? Surely you can have city centres (especially old towns) without cars and people living in suburbs, with special needs or whatever to own a car. I'd love to drive to a city centre and then have a walk without the traffic noise! I'd hate taking 90 minutes of bus instead of 20 minute drive.

CydeWeys 7y ago
> I'd love to drive to a city centre and then have a walk without the traffic noise There's a huge inherent contradiction here though: You are creating the very problem you want to escape from for everyone along your path of travel. land tends to be quite expensive in the city center, and parking is not a good use of it. Are you willing to spend $50 to park your car there to drive to the city center?
- ghaff 7y ago
  >Are you willing to spend $50 to park your car there to drive to the city center? That's pretty common for people who drive into big cities for the day (or indeed to work for a day). Maybe they park on the outskirts and take transit in. But that takes time and, especially for a family, the savings may not really be worth it.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    Yeah, that's why I chose that figure; it's roughly what it costs to park for a day here in Manhattan. And that's before the bridge and interstate tolls, if you're coming from the west. To most people it isn't worth it to spend that much, especially because traffic on the bridges and tunnels is usually so bad that the trains are not only cheaper but faster, too.
- dzhiurgis 7y ago
  Kinda agree but thats a model that works for many places that switched to car free centre. In many cases parking lots already exist in outskirts of the centre. Completely car free city is a pipe dream. Diversity is good.
  - KozmoNau7 7y ago
    The mere presence of cars actively hurts walkability and increases the risk of accidents for pedestrians and cyclists. Cars need special roadways with expensive construction methods, maintenance, signaling and provisions for parking their bulk. This takes up huge amounts of space that could have been used for waking streets, bike paths and attentive urban spaces, instead of large expanses of boring black asphalt. Ask a shop owner whether she would rather have thousands of people in cars driving by her store and not even look at it, or hundreds of pedestrians who stop and look at her display windows. Ask a cafe owner whether he would prefer to have his outside seating right next to a major thoroughfare, or on a busy walking street. Cars actively make environments hostile and uninviting to people.

tonyedgecombe 7y ago