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> When you're building a data or signal flow. All code, or at the very least functional code, can be directly mapped to a DFG. Should all functional programmi

> When you're building a data or signal flow. All code, or at the very least functional code, can be directly mapped to a DFG. Should all functional programming be done visually?

brandonmenc 6y ago
If a visual interface makes it easier, yes. If it makes it more difficult, no. That depends on what is being built, and who is building it. Like most things, it isn't one size fits all. And you're going to have to actually try it out to discover what works best.
- mgummelt 6y ago
  Well, of course. That's a tautology.
jcelerier 6y ago
Of course not, because if you write say a sorting algorithm the standard tool for that is structured programming primitives. It would be explained as text in a textbook, with ifs, whiles and variables assignations, not CFG / DFG prilitives. In contrast for instance in music, patchs were already the main interaction and creation mean even before computers existed - see e.g. music studio patchbays, modular synths or even guitarist pedalboards. So people in that field already have the mental model of a signal flow and bricks connected together. Both models can mix - a lot of people use small snippets of code in Max/MSP for instance. In the software I develop, https://ossia.io https://ossia.io it's super common that people will rely on a JS script embedded in a timeline for one small part of their score. Etc etc..
- Optimal_Persona 6y ago
  Wow, Ossia looks very cool - I've wondered if there was something like a "visual OSC-aware API tool" and there definitely is. The linked article for this thread would be much more meaningful if it mentioned a) specific visual programming languages found to be lacking and b) domains where the visual models map directly to the underlying processes being modeled. As you note, electronic music processes/devices like modular synths, recording studios, and electric guitar rigs are ripe for modeling with boxes/wires in node-based systems.
- mgummelt 6y ago
  > It would be explained as text in a textbook, with ifs, whiles and variables assignations, not CFG / DFG prilitives. Then it's not functional programming. I'm asking specifically about functional programming.

> When you're building a data or signal flow. All code, or at the very least functional code, can be directly mapped to a DFG. Should all functional programming be done visually?

brandonmenc 6y ago

If a visual interface makes it easier, yes. If it makes it more difficult, no. That depends on what is being built, and who is building it. Like most things, it isn't one size fits all. And you're going to have to actually try it out to discover what works best.

mgummelt 6y ago
Well, of course. That's a tautology.

jcelerier 6y ago

Of course not, because if you write say a sorting algorithm the standard tool for that is structured programming primitives. It would be explained as text in a textbook, with ifs, whiles and variables assignations, not CFG / DFG prilitives. In contrast for instance in music, patchs were already the main interaction and creation mean even before computers existed - see e.g. music studio patchbays, modular synths or even guitarist pedalboards. So people in that field already have the mental model of a signal flow and bricks connected together. Both models can mix - a lot of people use small snippets of code in Max/MSP for instance. In the software I develop, https://ossia.io https://ossia.io it's super common that people will rely on a JS script embedded in a timeline for one small part of their score. Etc etc..

Optimal_Persona 6y ago
Wow, Ossia looks very cool - I've wondered if there was something like a "visual OSC-aware API tool" and there definitely is. The linked article for this thread would be much more meaningful if it mentioned a) specific visual programming languages found to be lacking and b) domains where the visual models map directly to the underlying processes being modeled. As you note, electronic music processes/devices like modular synths, recording studios, and electric guitar rigs are ripe for modeling with boxes/wires in node-based systems.
mgummelt 6y ago
> It would be explained as text in a textbook, with ifs, whiles and variables assignations, not CFG / DFG prilitives. Then it's not functional programming. I'm asking specifically about functional programming.