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It's interesting to see the effect of a strong confirmation bias at play. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, and would challenge you to think through

It's interesting to see the effect of a strong confirmation bias at play. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, and would challenge you to think through your perceptions if you started from a different assumption. Narratives drive how we see the world. In concrete, objective, measurable terms -- what do you mean by a "left-authoritarian consolidation of power"? From my perspective, the right is the one really good at consolidating and protecting their power, while the left is a little ADD about what they care about. (And are thus less effective at being in charge, even if more Americans profess those beliefs.)

vanniv 7y ago
USSR, China, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia. These are all successful left-authoritarian power consolidations from the 20th century. Other than the WW2 Axis powers, there aren't many major successful right-authoritarian consolidations from last century. Many parts of the right are fundamentally opposed to government power, which makes creating a united right-wing front to consolidate totalitarian power really difficult. Unlike the American left, which works practically in lock-step, the right is a fractured, fractious mess that can hardly agree on anything, except maybe that the other side is bad sometimes. Even when the Republicans controlled all branches of government from 2016-2018, they couldn't accomplish anything, because unlike in the Democratic party, there's just no unity. As far as narratives go, I know well the power of the narrative. That's how we got where we are: the left owns the narrative. They invested three generations in controlling all avenues of knowledge and information dissemination, and it has completely paid off. I didn't start from any particular assumptions. Well, I'm sure I did, because you can't not, but I'm just taking people at their word and going by what they say. The left in America is fundamentally opposed to free enterprise and capitalism (see: Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Buttigeg, Yang, and every single Democrat candidate. see Obama, "The Squad", Pelosi and Maxine Waters.) There is a unified drumbeat message that free enterprise, capitalism, profit, capital itself, and, ultimately the freedom of people to make their own lives and choices are anathema. There is crystal clear, unified messaging from every powerful corner on the left that freedom needs to end, and that, with the help of the Covid crisis, it is ending now. I'm just taking them at their word.
- edmundsauto 7y ago
  >USSR, China, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia. These are all successful left-authoritarian power consolidations from the 20th century. > Other than the WW2 Axis powers, there aren't many major successful right-authoritarian consolidations from last century. Can you see how you hand-waved the other side away here? >Many parts of the right are fundamentally opposed to government power, which makes creating a united right-wing front to consolidate totalitarian power really difficult. Is Trump not considered right-wing? Didn't he recently state that he has ultimate power? Isn't he the one joking about removing term limits, and isn't it the people on the right meming about a Trump dynasty? > Unlike the American left, which works practically in lock-step, the right is a fractured, fractious mess that can hardly agree on anything, except maybe that the other side is bad sometimes. I have a 180 degree opposite viewpoint. The left seems to champion smaller clustered causes. The right is unified under a delusion of freedom, controlling women's bodies, and... guns maybe? Saying things to piss off the other side? It used to pay lip service to being a moral bastion, but lost that argument. > Even when the Republicans controlled all branches of government from 2016-2018, they couldn't accomplish anything, because unlike in the Democratic party, there's just no unity. What they accomplished was a restructuring of tax systems to increase the wealth concentration of the richest Americans, at the expense of the entire country. From there, your comment devolves into repeating talking points without any supporting evidence. They are so removed from my perception of reality, that I'm too tired to even respond to your vague and unsupported thoughts.
  - vanniv 7y ago
    I thought we were having a discussion in good faith I see instead that you are just interested in furthering you partisan asshattery. It's been fun, but I'm out.

vanniv 7y ago

USSR, China, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia. These are all successful left-authoritarian power consolidations from the 20th century. Other than the WW2 Axis powers, there aren't many major successful right-authoritarian consolidations from last century. Many parts of the right are fundamentally opposed to government power, which makes creating a united right-wing front to consolidate totalitarian power really difficult. Unlike the American left, which works practically in lock-step, the right is a fractured, fractious mess that can hardly agree on anything, except maybe that the other side is bad sometimes. Even when the Republicans controlled all branches of government from 2016-2018, they couldn't accomplish anything, because unlike in the Democratic party, there's just no unity. As far as narratives go, I know well the power of the narrative. That's how we got where we are: the left owns the narrative. They invested three generations in controlling all avenues of knowledge and information dissemination, and it has completely paid off. I didn't start from any particular assumptions. Well, I'm sure I did, because you can't not, but I'm just taking people at their word and going by what they say. The left in America is fundamentally opposed to free enterprise and capitalism (see: Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Buttigeg, Yang, and every single Democrat candidate. see Obama, "The Squad", Pelosi and Maxine Waters.) There is a unified drumbeat message that free enterprise, capitalism, profit, capital itself, and, ultimately the freedom of people to make their own lives and choices are anathema. There is crystal clear, unified messaging from every powerful corner on the left that freedom needs to end, and that, with the help of the Covid crisis, it is ending now. I'm just taking them at their word.

edmundsauto 7y ago
>USSR, China, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia. These are all successful left-authoritarian power consolidations from the 20th century. > Other than the WW2 Axis powers, there aren't many major successful right-authoritarian consolidations from last century. Can you see how you hand-waved the other side away here? >Many parts of the right are fundamentally opposed to government power, which makes creating a united right-wing front to consolidate totalitarian power really difficult. Is Trump not considered right-wing? Didn't he recently state that he has ultimate power? Isn't he the one joking about removing term limits, and isn't it the people on the right meming about a Trump dynasty? > Unlike the American left, which works practically in lock-step, the right is a fractured, fractious mess that can hardly agree on anything, except maybe that the other side is bad sometimes. I have a 180 degree opposite viewpoint. The left seems to champion smaller clustered causes. The right is unified under a delusion of freedom, controlling women's bodies, and... guns maybe? Saying things to piss off the other side? It used to pay lip service to being a moral bastion, but lost that argument. > Even when the Republicans controlled all branches of government from 2016-2018, they couldn't accomplish anything, because unlike in the Democratic party, there's just no unity. What they accomplished was a restructuring of tax systems to increase the wealth concentration of the richest Americans, at the expense of the entire country. From there, your comment devolves into repeating talking points without any supporting evidence. They are so removed from my perception of reality, that I'm too tired to even respond to your vague and unsupported thoughts.
- vanniv 7y ago
  I thought we were having a discussion in good faith I see instead that you are just interested in furthering you partisan asshattery. It's been fun, but I'm out.