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> keep the rest of us fed, clothed, and healthy The problem is that merely being locked down is quite unhealthy in many ways. As anecdote, I'm drinking about

> keep the rest of us fed, clothed, and healthy The problem is that merely being locked down is quite unhealthy in many ways. As anecdote, I'm drinking about twice as much, not exercising at all, canceling dental cleanings, and wouldn't go into a medical setting short of something obviously life-threatening. (And indeed, many people with stroke symptoms aren't going to the ER right away, which can easily be life-changing.) One essay I just saw made the likely-valid point that the risk here is almost entirely concentrated in the population that's 60+ (and a few younger people with unusual medical conditions). If so, a better plan than shotgunning the entire economy for a year or two may well be to figure out how to specifically protect those who are vulnerable, and let things run their course with the rest. In any case, if something cannot go on, it will not. No way we'll be locked down in a year, no matter what pie-in-the-sky handouts are distributed.

oliwarner 7y ago
People not attending hospital with serious conditions is a very real issue but you've buried it under an anecdote that you can't control your drinking, exercise independently or brush your teeth adequately. Covid-19 might be the wake-up call you needed to get your personal maintenance in check. This will drag on and may happen again in the future. No time like today.
- downerending 7y ago
  I didn't say that I can't. Akrasia is a thing. A lot of this was getting done semi-automatically as part of my daily habit. As for all of us, lockdown wreaks havoc on that. Policy needs to be decided on the basis of what people will do, not what they should do. Thanks for your encouragement.
  - oliwarner 7y ago
    No. Policy needs to be decided on the basis of what people need to do. I'm sorry, but it's simply not good enough to say we can't abide this because you can't manage your own faculties. We're facing a virus that spread around the world in days because of normal social contact. Lasting respiratory and cardiac damage is common and reinfection appears to be possible. People need to do better. Yeah, we're social beasts and struggle, but that's not a reason to abandon the actual goal here. It's possible to get through this with some support. Willpower is a trainable life skill. We live in a society that does its level-best to undermine willpower to coerce you into bad purchasing decisions, but this is reversible. But you have to engage. Nobody can do this for you.
    - downerending 7y ago
      We can all hope that you are never given a position of responsibility in the public policy realm. Many would die.
      - ryanwaggoner 7y ago
        One imagines you would have told Churchill the same thing. Or any other leader who used their platform to lift people up in their darkest hour so they do better than they thought possible.
        true_religion 7y ago
        Neither you nor any of our current politicians are anything like Churchill. It is not enough to mandate belt tightening during a crisis, you must also get out there and give a rousing speech so people will want to tighten their belts. If you just provide “good” policy, but no framework to make it palatable then you have failed before you started.
        oliwarner 7y ago
        I don't think anybody was suggesting that we or our politicians are anything like Churchill. And I think that we agree that our politicians need to do their jobs better. But many of today's leaders got where they are by division, not unification. Trump would have to do a pretty serious U-turn. Boris Johnson thinks he's Churchill but half the country hates him. These are not simple times. I'd wonder if gamification (eg stayed-indoors points) could be used to improve this through soft social pressure but I'd suggest the overlap between people out protesting and ignoring rules are probably not the sort to want to engage with that. Maybe we need this. A drawn-out decimation to teach future generations about how harmful people who insist on putting themselves ahead of the group can be.
        downerending 7y ago
        > Maybe we need this. A drawn-out decimation to teach future generations... You're hoping for death and destruction just to teach people your lesson? Really?? Personally, I'll be glad to be wrong about everything to avoid that outcome.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Crossing into personal attack is not going to have good effects. Maybe this comment didn't quite do that, but you certainly went there downthread. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
samsonradu 7y ago
You're very right, being locked down is unhealthy. But isn't the US in an 'advised' lockdown state only? Why not go out (alone) and exercise? Currently in Brussels, where things look quite bad statistically speaking. However, parks are full of people running/exercising/stretching and even walking just to enjoy the sun.
- downerending 7y ago
  I should. And where I'm at, I could. Perhaps I even will. But at scale, lockdown has broken our habits, good and bad. This has a price.
- caseysoftware 7y ago
  Nationally, yes it's "advised" because the Federal government can't demand it short of martial law or similar. That said, most States have required lockdowns or shelter in place. In the US system of federalism, the state governors+legislators have much more control over what happens in their state than the President+Congress.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
wutbrodo 7y ago
> As anecdote, I'm drinking about twice as much, not exercising at all, canceling dental cleanings, and wouldn't go into a medical setting short of something obviously life-threatening. This might be a life-stage or life-style thing, but this is probably the healthiest I've been in a long time. I have to be intentional with all my food, so I'm eating almost literally perfectly (though god do I miss restaurants...), and weed fits isolation or zoom hangouts in the way that alcohol fits in-person social events, and is _way_ healthier. And I've had multiple friends my age (late 20s) guiltily admit that this pace of life just feels a lot healthier mentally. That isn't to say that the psychological challenges aren't sometimes significant, and I have gone from a 4x/wk gymgoer to struggling a little with consistent exercise. And the example of deferring medical care is a good one. But I just thought I'd share a counter-anecdote to the anecdote driving your assumption that being locked-down is necessarily net unhealthy.

oliwarner 7y ago

People not attending hospital with serious conditions is a very real issue but you've buried it under an anecdote that you can't control your drinking, exercise independently or brush your teeth adequately. Covid-19 might be the wake-up call you needed to get your personal maintenance in check. This will drag on and may happen again in the future. No time like today.

downerending 7y ago
I didn't say that I can't. Akrasia is a thing. A lot of this was getting done semi-automatically as part of my daily habit. As for all of us, lockdown wreaks havoc on that. Policy needs to be decided on the basis of what people will do, not what they should do. Thanks for your encouragement.
- oliwarner 7y ago
  No. Policy needs to be decided on the basis of what people need to do. I'm sorry, but it's simply not good enough to say we can't abide this because you can't manage your own faculties. We're facing a virus that spread around the world in days because of normal social contact. Lasting respiratory and cardiac damage is common and reinfection appears to be possible. People need to do better. Yeah, we're social beasts and struggle, but that's not a reason to abandon the actual goal here. It's possible to get through this with some support. Willpower is a trainable life skill. We live in a society that does its level-best to undermine willpower to coerce you into bad purchasing decisions, but this is reversible. But you have to engage. Nobody can do this for you.
  - downerending 7y ago
    We can all hope that you are never given a position of responsibility in the public policy realm. Many would die.
    - ryanwaggoner 7y ago
      One imagines you would have told Churchill the same thing. Or any other leader who used their platform to lift people up in their darkest hour so they do better than they thought possible.
      - true_religion 7y ago
        Neither you nor any of our current politicians are anything like Churchill. It is not enough to mandate belt tightening during a crisis, you must also get out there and give a rousing speech so people will want to tighten their belts. If you just provide “good” policy, but no framework to make it palatable then you have failed before you started.
        oliwarner 7y ago
        I don't think anybody was suggesting that we or our politicians are anything like Churchill. And I think that we agree that our politicians need to do their jobs better. But many of today's leaders got where they are by division, not unification. Trump would have to do a pretty serious U-turn. Boris Johnson thinks he's Churchill but half the country hates him. These are not simple times. I'd wonder if gamification (eg stayed-indoors points) could be used to improve this through soft social pressure but I'd suggest the overlap between people out protesting and ignoring rules are probably not the sort to want to engage with that. Maybe we need this. A drawn-out decimation to teach future generations about how harmful people who insist on putting themselves ahead of the group can be.
        downerending 7y ago
        > Maybe we need this. A drawn-out decimation to teach future generations... You're hoping for death and destruction just to teach people your lesson? Really?? Personally, I'll be glad to be wrong about everything to avoid that outcome.
dang 7y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Crossing into personal attack is not going to have good effects. Maybe this comment didn't quite do that, but you certainly went there downthread. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

samsonradu 7y ago

You're very right, being locked down is unhealthy. But isn't the US in an 'advised' lockdown state only? Why not go out (alone) and exercise? Currently in Brussels, where things look quite bad statistically speaking. However, parks are full of people running/exercising/stretching and even walking just to enjoy the sun.

downerending 7y ago
I should. And where I'm at, I could. Perhaps I even will. But at scale, lockdown has broken our habits, good and bad. This has a price.
caseysoftware 7y ago
Nationally, yes it's "advised" because the Federal government can't demand it short of martial law or similar. That said, most States have required lockdowns or shelter in place. In the US system of federalism, the state governors+legislators have much more control over what happens in their state than the President+Congress.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

wutbrodo 7y ago

> As anecdote, I'm drinking about twice as much, not exercising at all, canceling dental cleanings, and wouldn't go into a medical setting short of something obviously life-threatening. This might be a life-stage or life-style thing, but this is probably the healthiest I've been in a long time. I have to be intentional with all my food, so I'm eating almost literally perfectly (though god do I miss restaurants...), and weed fits isolation or zoom hangouts in the way that alcohol fits in-person social events, and is _way_ healthier. And I've had multiple friends my age (late 20s) guiltily admit that this pace of life just feels a lot healthier mentally. That isn't to say that the psychological challenges aren't sometimes significant, and I have gone from a 4x/wk gymgoer to struggling a little with consistent exercise. And the example of deferring medical care is a good one. But I just thought I'd share a counter-anecdote to the anecdote driving your assumption that being locked-down is necessarily net unhealthy.