5 ms·

>> but given what we saw with the Occupy Movement Care to elaborate?

pstuart 6y ago
A couple examples below. The key thing is that they won: The occupy movement was effectively neutered. https://www.globalresearch.ca/infiltration-of-occupy-part-i-infiltration-to-disrupt-divide-and-mis-direct-are-widespread-in-occupy/29493 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy
- Melting_Harps 6y ago
  > A couple examples below. The key thing is that they won: The occupy movement was effectively neutered. That's just what was documented, I did a project with one of the more active and vocal members of Occupy LA, he pulled a few of the major occupations that got him in quite a bit of trouble. And on TV in one of the spectacles, but ultimately left him disillusioned in the end. Anyhow, he had stories about how they had a few 'squats' throughout where they would stay to plan things out, both for LA as well as NY, and they had to stop letting people in because so many were turning out to be CI for the police. The survailence economy was also starting to become widespread as Wifi enabled phones were also starting to become common, but here is another article detailing the FBI's tactics [1] in dragnet surveillance as well as brazen overt tactics. Hell, the damn Federal Reserve even had a hand in the surveillance program against Occupy at one point! When confronted what some accepted in return for it many said the police would give them drugs or alcohol, or cash which if you're a severally depressed millennial with 10-100ks of student debt and no job prospects, and recently evicted out of your home, living on the street/car (with now deep psychological trauma) the why/hows become pretty obvious. On a Human level, that's just incredibly sad and exploitative behaviour of people in vulnerable positions. Personally, I never liked the Occupy movement; initially it seemed to show promise (coordinated bank runs) but then it severally stagnated in the demonstration phase and squandered its resources until it became irrelevant--while many of its supporters mistook it for an extended Spring Break and livecasting was in its infancy and becoming quite popular around that period too--JustinTV was starting to get the attention of Google to become Twitch around that time, too. In retrospect I wonder how much of that contributed to the 'influencer' model we see now. The Occupy movement could have done so much good if they took those motivated people into places like Detroit and bought up sky scrapers or entire neighborhood blocks to renovate and house them, and then participated in the Urban gardening revolution and local economic resurgence and commerce that took place with all the funds they had. I know this because I suggested it to them as I hung out in their chat rooms back then and saw what was happening as food deserts were becoming even more ubiquitous and saw the writing on the wall. My personal transition into Environmentalism and Activism was occurring at that time, too, so I recall it quite vividly. My conclusions was that they simply had no plan and wanted to vent their anger, which was well intended, but then it became a reason to just have fun at night partying and not really mobilize for actual change. Also, they were totally against my staunch (especially back then) An-Cap/Crypto-Anarchist position, and I was probably seen as just another 'capitalist shill' so I'm not an apologist for them at all. I was just highlighting the State's MO and how Tom's work details how some of it was done in relation in his 20 years researching the Manson case and how it related to a 'political' movement in recent History. 1: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fbi-occupy-wall-street_n_2410783 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fbi-occupy-wall-street_n_2410...
  - lowdose 6y ago
    If Mr. Robot was about Occupy, what do you think the serie Home Coming was about? After reading Anna Jacobson books I wonder if it actually reflect reality.
    - Melting_Harps 6y ago
      > Mr. Robot was about Occupy I'm a Mr. Robot fan, and a real fan of Kor's influence (an ex security guy at Toyota!) on the show but I likely took a very different perspective from it than most as I'm a crypto nerd. To me the series was like a dramatization of Naomi Campbell's Shock Doctrine [1] with very well portrayed hacks and exploits (I'm not a pen tester but some OPESEC stuff was quite accurate). And their crypto stuff was actually well developed and researched. And some hero vs villeins characters to keep things going. SPOILER ALLERT The occupy overtones felt like a distraction, and a tired trope to me; the masks were an obvious nod to the Guy Faux maskes representing Anonymous, but beyond that I think it was rather lacking any real substance--Season 3's riot at E-corp showed how quickly things escalate to violent mob-rule even against the supposed protagonists. The redistribution of wealth via a hack against the 1%'s seemed forced and cobbled together because Sam wanted the ending to fit that narrative and quite frankly it felt forcefully coaxed; whereas the mental health, loneliness and substance abuse plot was very well paced and fleshed out throughout the series. I wasn't really satisfied with how that last hack drove the series end and how the last 'hack' saved the World was rather ridiculous to me as result--and this is from perhaps one of the most anti-nuclear voices on HN! And he survived to see his plan triumph, because reasons we cannot and will not explain beyond some far fetched off scene make-believe you will just have to accept. I've never seen Homeland; to be honest I don't really watch TV much as popular shows feel boring to things that happen in the many sub-cultures and communities I'm involved in. That guy from Occupy I mentioned before got me into Mr. Robot at the end of season 1 but I didn't get into it much until the E-Coin vs Bitcoin plot development in S2 and binged most of it until that part. Even during this lockdown I've been mainly re-watching/listening to old races, concerts and DJ sets while I study and do stuff. I have like 5 audio books I'm waiting to sink my teeth into so I'm afraid I won't get to see Home Coming anytime, either. I'll check out the trailer, but that's rather glib representation I imagine. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGmB63TIHLY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGmB63TIHLY Edit: Saw trailer: eh, Black Mirror's Men Against Fire did that plot brilliantly, and this seems like an elongated version of it. And what is Sam's obsession with fish tanks? PS: I don't think I've clarified my position with the Shock Doctrine; I agree with Campbell's premise, but not her conclusion(s), as Free Market Capitalism is not what is inserted in the 'window of operation' from the disaster/shock to the system, but rather a very parasitic corporate plutocracy emerges in the way Mussolini defined Fascism (the merging of State and Corporate power) is what inserts itself in practice. Even Pricenton has defined the US as an Oligarchy.

A couple examples below. The key thing is that they won: The occupy movement was effectively neutered. https://www.globalresearch.ca/infiltration-of-occupy-part-i-infiltration-to-disrupt-divide-and-mis-direct-are-widespread-in-occupy/29493 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy

Melting_Harps 6y ago
> A couple examples below. The key thing is that they won: The occupy movement was effectively neutered. That's just what was documented, I did a project with one of the more active and vocal members of Occupy LA, he pulled a few of the major occupations that got him in quite a bit of trouble. And on TV in one of the spectacles, but ultimately left him disillusioned in the end. Anyhow, he had stories about how they had a few 'squats' throughout where they would stay to plan things out, both for LA as well as NY, and they had to stop letting people in because so many were turning out to be CI for the police. The survailence economy was also starting to become widespread as Wifi enabled phones were also starting to become common, but here is another article detailing the FBI's tactics [1] in dragnet surveillance as well as brazen overt tactics. Hell, the damn Federal Reserve even had a hand in the surveillance program against Occupy at one point! When confronted what some accepted in return for it many said the police would give them drugs or alcohol, or cash which if you're a severally depressed millennial with 10-100ks of student debt and no job prospects, and recently evicted out of your home, living on the street/car (with now deep psychological trauma) the why/hows become pretty obvious. On a Human level, that's just incredibly sad and exploitative behaviour of people in vulnerable positions. Personally, I never liked the Occupy movement; initially it seemed to show promise (coordinated bank runs) but then it severally stagnated in the demonstration phase and squandered its resources until it became irrelevant--while many of its supporters mistook it for an extended Spring Break and livecasting was in its infancy and becoming quite popular around that period too--JustinTV was starting to get the attention of Google to become Twitch around that time, too. In retrospect I wonder how much of that contributed to the 'influencer' model we see now. The Occupy movement could have done so much good if they took those motivated people into places like Detroit and bought up sky scrapers or entire neighborhood blocks to renovate and house them, and then participated in the Urban gardening revolution and local economic resurgence and commerce that took place with all the funds they had. I know this because I suggested it to them as I hung out in their chat rooms back then and saw what was happening as food deserts were becoming even more ubiquitous and saw the writing on the wall. My personal transition into Environmentalism and Activism was occurring at that time, too, so I recall it quite vividly. My conclusions was that they simply had no plan and wanted to vent their anger, which was well intended, but then it became a reason to just have fun at night partying and not really mobilize for actual change. Also, they were totally against my staunch (especially back then) An-Cap/Crypto-Anarchist position, and I was probably seen as just another 'capitalist shill' so I'm not an apologist for them at all. I was just highlighting the State's MO and how Tom's work details how some of it was done in relation in his 20 years researching the Manson case and how it related to a 'political' movement in recent History. 1: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fbi-occupy-wall-street_n_2410783 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fbi-occupy-wall-street_n_2410...
- lowdose 6y ago
  If Mr. Robot was about Occupy, what do you think the serie Home Coming was about? After reading Anna Jacobson books I wonder if it actually reflect reality.
  - Melting_Harps 6y ago
    > Mr. Robot was about Occupy I'm a Mr. Robot fan, and a real fan of Kor's influence (an ex security guy at Toyota!) on the show but I likely took a very different perspective from it than most as I'm a crypto nerd. To me the series was like a dramatization of Naomi Campbell's Shock Doctrine [1] with very well portrayed hacks and exploits (I'm not a pen tester but some OPESEC stuff was quite accurate). And their crypto stuff was actually well developed and researched. And some hero vs villeins characters to keep things going. SPOILER ALLERT The occupy overtones felt like a distraction, and a tired trope to me; the masks were an obvious nod to the Guy Faux maskes representing Anonymous, but beyond that I think it was rather lacking any real substance--Season 3's riot at E-corp showed how quickly things escalate to violent mob-rule even against the supposed protagonists. The redistribution of wealth via a hack against the 1%'s seemed forced and cobbled together because Sam wanted the ending to fit that narrative and quite frankly it felt forcefully coaxed; whereas the mental health, loneliness and substance abuse plot was very well paced and fleshed out throughout the series. I wasn't really satisfied with how that last hack drove the series end and how the last 'hack' saved the World was rather ridiculous to me as result--and this is from perhaps one of the most anti-nuclear voices on HN! And he survived to see his plan triumph, because reasons we cannot and will not explain beyond some far fetched off scene make-believe you will just have to accept. I've never seen Homeland; to be honest I don't really watch TV much as popular shows feel boring to things that happen in the many sub-cultures and communities I'm involved in. That guy from Occupy I mentioned before got me into Mr. Robot at the end of season 1 but I didn't get into it much until the E-Coin vs Bitcoin plot development in S2 and binged most of it until that part. Even during this lockdown I've been mainly re-watching/listening to old races, concerts and DJ sets while I study and do stuff. I have like 5 audio books I'm waiting to sink my teeth into so I'm afraid I won't get to see Home Coming anytime, either. I'll check out the trailer, but that's rather glib representation I imagine. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGmB63TIHLY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGmB63TIHLY Edit: Saw trailer: eh, Black Mirror's Men Against Fire did that plot brilliantly, and this seems like an elongated version of it. And what is Sam's obsession with fish tanks? PS: I don't think I've clarified my position with the Shock Doctrine; I agree with Campbell's premise, but not her conclusion(s), as Free Market Capitalism is not what is inserted in the 'window of operation' from the disaster/shock to the system, but rather a very parasitic corporate plutocracy emerges in the way Mussolini defined Fascism (the merging of State and Corporate power) is what inserts itself in practice. Even Pricenton has defined the US as an Oligarchy.