4 ms·

> I personally ask for a 25% deposit on all projects (not monthly retainer clients). I think you have to be a bit sensible about this one. I've worked for Sale

> I personally ask for a 25% deposit on all projects (not monthly retainer clients). I think you have to be a bit sensible about this one. I've worked for Salesforce and Warner Bros and I think it highly unlikely you would get the finance department to go along with this.

hashkb 6y ago
You absolutely can. They can afford it. Can you afford to walk away? If they can tell you're thirsty, they'll convince you you're a dime a dozen and rake you over the coals. That's finance's job; but everyone else's job is to get the work out of you. Work around finance.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  Is there any reason to go through the hassle with established companies?
  - thih9 6y ago
    If that's a hassle, receiving full payment might be a hassle too and we want to avoid that.
  - hashkb 6y ago
    Yeah. Large companies are better at screwing contractors than small ones, on the whole. You're less likely to have a human relationship you can leverage.
- hash872 6y ago
  Companies of that size are going to have standardized contracts and take it or leave it terms. 'Finance' (really procurement) does not have the time or bandwidth to sit there and negotiate terms & conditions with individual freelancers- anything you proposed would have to be run by Legal, then get redlined, etc. You can't negotiate with them
  - hashkb 6y ago
    I disagree. I negotiate all the time, and often even get companies to use my contract or at least incorporate many of my terms. Edit: If you aren't ready to say "sorry we couldn't make a deal" and bail, you'll never know what finance is willing to do. They have a lot more time than you. Edit 2: biggest lesson for me: "these are our standard terms, we don't negotiate them" is just words! You get to use your words back. That's negotiating. I can say "I always accept payment in full prior to starting". Neither are laws of physics, right?
    - hash872 6y ago
      > I negotiate all the time, and often even get companies to use my contract or at least incorporate many of my terms With what size companies? I am also self-employed, and also negotiate all the time, and also frequently get companies to use my contracts or agree to my terms. It just stops working at a certain company size, unless you are really providing something rare or unique. The discussion was not whether clients will negotiate- many will- but whether you can get Salesforce or Warner Brothers to negotiate their standard contract. At that company size, no, I don't believe that they do
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- damagednoob 6y ago
  I don't think they're as cut-throat as you think they are. Has this been your experience with companies that size? The flip side of you're argument is that you are a dime a dozen and they go with someone with less ridiculous demands. Also, my contracts have generally been open-ended. How much is 25% in that case. 1 month's wage? 1 year's wage?
_pmf_ 6y ago
> I think it highly unlikely you would get the finance department to go along with this. It usually involves convincing the customer at the company to convince his purchasing department that a (dummy) pre-project is needed (call it whatever, feasibility study, prototype).

hashkb 6y ago

You absolutely can. They can afford it. Can you afford to walk away? If they can tell you're thirsty, they'll convince you you're a dime a dozen and rake you over the coals. That's finance's job; but everyone else's job is to get the work out of you. Work around finance.

MattGaiser 6y ago
Is there any reason to go through the hassle with established companies?
- thih9 6y ago
  If that's a hassle, receiving full payment might be a hassle too and we want to avoid that.
- hashkb 6y ago
  Yeah. Large companies are better at screwing contractors than small ones, on the whole. You're less likely to have a human relationship you can leverage.
hash872 6y ago
Companies of that size are going to have standardized contracts and take it or leave it terms. 'Finance' (really procurement) does not have the time or bandwidth to sit there and negotiate terms & conditions with individual freelancers- anything you proposed would have to be run by Legal, then get redlined, etc. You can't negotiate with them
- hashkb 6y ago
  I disagree. I negotiate all the time, and often even get companies to use my contract or at least incorporate many of my terms. Edit: If you aren't ready to say "sorry we couldn't make a deal" and bail, you'll never know what finance is willing to do. They have a lot more time than you. Edit 2: biggest lesson for me: "these are our standard terms, we don't negotiate them" is just words! You get to use your words back. That's negotiating. I can say "I always accept payment in full prior to starting". Neither are laws of physics, right?
  - hash872 6y ago
    > I negotiate all the time, and often even get companies to use my contract or at least incorporate many of my terms With what size companies? I am also self-employed, and also negotiate all the time, and also frequently get companies to use my contracts or agree to my terms. It just stops working at a certain company size, unless you are really providing something rare or unique. The discussion was not whether clients will negotiate- many will- but whether you can get Salesforce or Warner Brothers to negotiate their standard contract. At that company size, no, I don't believe that they do
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
damagednoob 6y ago
I don't think they're as cut-throat as you think they are. Has this been your experience with companies that size? The flip side of you're argument is that you are a dime a dozen and they go with someone with less ridiculous demands. Also, my contracts have generally been open-ended. How much is 25% in that case. 1 month's wage? 1 year's wage?

_pmf_ 6y ago

> I think it highly unlikely you would get the finance department to go along with this. It usually involves convincing the customer at the company to convince his purchasing department that a (dummy) pre-project is needed (call it whatever, feasibility study, prototype).