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This is why I can't understand the appeal of a MacBook. You have the Apple burden, the Apple costs, what benefits? The touchpad? The showoff luxury of a lighted

This is why I can't understand the appeal of a MacBook. You have the Apple burden, the Apple costs, what benefits? The touchpad? The showoff luxury of a lighted logo?

scarface74 6y ago
I can’t either and besides the Mac, I’m fully onboard with the Apple ecosystem - iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AirPods Pro, and an AppleTV 4K. I bought Macs way back in the day - my last one was a 2006 Mac Mini to use as an HTPC. But every time I get ready to buy a computer, Macs don’t seem to have any advantage. I would be installing the same software I use for Windows - Chrome, Visual Studio Code and various language runtimes, Visual Studio (or Rider), a bit torrent client, Plex, etc. I can buy a Dell a lot cheaper - of course from the MS store to avoid all of the crapware - and have more options. I still recommend Macs for other people though who have the budget. They are still slightly less of a hassle than Windows and they can go to an Apple Store if they have any issues.
- danieldk 6y ago
  I can buy a Dell a lot cheaper - of course from the MS store to avoid all of the crapware - and have more options. A while ago I installed a pristine Windows 10 (retail) copy on my NUC, just to see where Windows is at. I'll skip the Candy Crash Saga criticism. But I was really surprised that besides the drivers, it also auto-installed some crappy RealTek application and some crappy Intel application (for tweaking GPU settings or whatever). No vendor driver CDs or whatnot. Just letting Windows idle for some time and these applications were installed. Is it really possible to get a pristine Windows install these days?
  - Sangeppato 6y ago
    Many drivers come with crap bundle apps with stupid behaviour. My previous Windows laptop had a super annoying constant display flickering, even on a fresh installation. After months, I learned that I had to disable "auto-resfresh display" (or something similar) that in an Intel app because it was enabled by default (and re-enabled after every major update). Compared to macOS/Gnome, I think that Windows shows poor taste in many aspects
cerberusss 6y ago
Well, it's very good hardware, very stable software (in my experience), and you can drop to a terminal. It's excessively expensive though. It's a business expense for me, but otherwise I would've bought one of those laptops that come with Linux pre-installed.
- danieldk 6y ago
  What really good Linux laptop can you get below the price of a MacBook Air that is not a second-hand Lenovo or a rebranded Clevo? And must have a HiDPI screen. Most likes Linux laptops are in the same pricing ballpark as a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro. And they don't have macOS.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  Good hardware with the exception of the keyboards. Never had a laptop keyboard fail this bad before and then to find out it is glued in and can't really be replaced without leaving my machine in the hands of the company is not an option.
Sangeppato 6y ago
If I like macOS more than Windows why shouldn't I pick a MacBook? Why shouldn't I pay 300/400 extra euros on a 2000 euros machine that I'll use everyday for 4/5 years if the software makes me happier/faster? For me, the MacBooks still have the best build quality, trackpad, speakers, display resolution (instead of the FHD vs overkill 4K choice) and, more importantly, I just prefer macOS and its approach on laptops. Furthermore, you can still sell a used macbook after years for quite high prices compared to the Windows alternatives. Granted, I'd never buy some of Apple's products/configurations (like an iMac, the Mac Pro or the 16 MBP with 64 GB of RAM), but a base MBP with 16GB of RAM is more than adequate for me nowadays and it's not much more expensive than the alternatives. If you don't care about the OS (or prefer Windows/linux), then obviously a macbook doesn't make any sense these days
proverbialbunny 6y ago
Macbooks are mostly bought by companies in the tech industry, which is how Apple can get away with charging high prices for them. Companies don't barter. They'll pay whatever the price. This too is why upgrades home users do not need cost an arm and a leg. Why are MBs and MBPs used in the tech industry? Many types of dev roles can only be done well on Linux or OSX (or BSD), because they're writing software for servers or their software runs on servers. The company has to choose. Some companies go exclusively Linux for their desktops and OSX for their laptops. Some go exclusively laptop. Linux does have mature enough laptops for consumers, but for business use on the laptop side Linux hasn't gone far enough. I have yet to run into a company that doesn't offer laptops because of remote and partial remote work being so common, along with needing to take your work computer into meeting rooms from time to time. In short, it depends on the industry you're in, and if you're not in those industries you probably haven't seen it, but what fuels most Macbook sales is businesses.
- ric2b 6y ago
  My previous company used to offer both options (Dell laptop with Linux or MacBook) and eventually stopped offering the MacBook because of the RAM limitations at the time (16GB Max) and horrible docker performance. RAM and docker were very important for our product and whoever chose the MacBook ended up regretting it (devs only, I mean).
  - proverbialbunny 6y ago
    The companies I've worked at have a "docker team" that does all of that, so everyone else can just write code. Continuous integration is enough to identify if there is a bug on Linux that isn't on OSX, but sometimes you just gotta SSH into a Linux box and build there to figure it out. Requiring docker from the get go sounds painful, but maybe that just comes from my inexperience never having to use it. Like, does CLion, PyCharm, and similar even support building into docker from the get go? Wouldn't that increase build times instead of just building it natively on your machine? Any extra level of complexity is painful until you automate it in a bug free and efficient way, I suppose.
theonemind 6y ago
I think Apple's target audience has the money to spare, so to understand, first just compare the machines and forget about the price. People also don't buy Apple as a gaming platform,and Apple buyers don't care much about performance/$ comparatively speaking, so they don't care much about performance, either. You probably care about price and performance and find that hard to grasp, but I land in the camp that (to some degree) does not care about price or performance. So, setting aside the price and performance, compare the machines setting those aside. Most other machines feel clunky by comparison. I bought an XPS 15 and had audio driver issues. The fans blow out of the bottom, which seems pretty lame for having a laptop, say, on your lap. It has a lame plastic flexy feel compared to a MacBook. A lot of people mention the XPS line as an alternative to the Macs, but I bought one to leave the Mac ecosystem, and it felt so clunky that I still just went ahead and bought another Mac after that. So, I really think it makes perfect sense if the price and performance don't much concern you.

This is why I can't understand the appeal of a MacBook. You have the Apple burden, the Apple costs, what benefits? The touchpad? The showoff luxury of a lighted logo?

scarface74 6y ago

I can’t either and besides the Mac, I’m fully onboard with the Apple ecosystem - iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AirPods Pro, and an AppleTV 4K. I bought Macs way back in the day - my last one was a 2006 Mac Mini to use as an HTPC. But every time I get ready to buy a computer, Macs don’t seem to have any advantage. I would be installing the same software I use for Windows - Chrome, Visual Studio Code and various language runtimes, Visual Studio (or Rider), a bit torrent client, Plex, etc. I can buy a Dell a lot cheaper - of course from the MS store to avoid all of the crapware - and have more options. I still recommend Macs for other people though who have the budget. They are still slightly less of a hassle than Windows and they can go to an Apple Store if they have any issues.

danieldk 6y ago
I can buy a Dell a lot cheaper - of course from the MS store to avoid all of the crapware - and have more options. A while ago I installed a pristine Windows 10 (retail) copy on my NUC, just to see where Windows is at. I'll skip the Candy Crash Saga criticism. But I was really surprised that besides the drivers, it also auto-installed some crappy RealTek application and some crappy Intel application (for tweaking GPU settings or whatever). No vendor driver CDs or whatnot. Just letting Windows idle for some time and these applications were installed. Is it really possible to get a pristine Windows install these days?
- Sangeppato 6y ago
  Many drivers come with crap bundle apps with stupid behaviour. My previous Windows laptop had a super annoying constant display flickering, even on a fresh installation. After months, I learned that I had to disable "auto-resfresh display" (or something similar) that in an Intel app because it was enabled by default (and re-enabled after every major update). Compared to macOS/Gnome, I think that Windows shows poor taste in many aspects

cerberusss 6y ago

Well, it's very good hardware, very stable software (in my experience), and you can drop to a terminal. It's excessively expensive though. It's a business expense for me, but otherwise I would've bought one of those laptops that come with Linux pre-installed.

danieldk 6y ago
What really good Linux laptop can you get below the price of a MacBook Air that is not a second-hand Lenovo or a rebranded Clevo? And must have a HiDPI screen. Most likes Linux laptops are in the same pricing ballpark as a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro. And they don't have macOS.
jacquesm 6y ago
Good hardware with the exception of the keyboards. Never had a laptop keyboard fail this bad before and then to find out it is glued in and can't really be replaced without leaving my machine in the hands of the company is not an option.

Sangeppato 6y ago

If I like macOS more than Windows why shouldn't I pick a MacBook? Why shouldn't I pay 300/400 extra euros on a 2000 euros machine that I'll use everyday for 4/5 years if the software makes me happier/faster? For me, the MacBooks still have the best build quality, trackpad, speakers, display resolution (instead of the FHD vs overkill 4K choice) and, more importantly, I just prefer macOS and its approach on laptops. Furthermore, you can still sell a used macbook after years for quite high prices compared to the Windows alternatives. Granted, I'd never buy some of Apple's products/configurations (like an iMac, the Mac Pro or the 16 MBP with 64 GB of RAM), but a base MBP with 16GB of RAM is more than adequate for me nowadays and it's not much more expensive than the alternatives. If you don't care about the OS (or prefer Windows/linux), then obviously a macbook doesn't make any sense these days

proverbialbunny 6y ago

Macbooks are mostly bought by companies in the tech industry, which is how Apple can get away with charging high prices for them. Companies don't barter. They'll pay whatever the price. This too is why upgrades home users do not need cost an arm and a leg. Why are MBs and MBPs used in the tech industry? Many types of dev roles can only be done well on Linux or OSX (or BSD), because they're writing software for servers or their software runs on servers. The company has to choose. Some companies go exclusively Linux for their desktops and OSX for their laptops. Some go exclusively laptop. Linux does have mature enough laptops for consumers, but for business use on the laptop side Linux hasn't gone far enough. I have yet to run into a company that doesn't offer laptops because of remote and partial remote work being so common, along with needing to take your work computer into meeting rooms from time to time. In short, it depends on the industry you're in, and if you're not in those industries you probably haven't seen it, but what fuels most Macbook sales is businesses.

ric2b 6y ago
My previous company used to offer both options (Dell laptop with Linux or MacBook) and eventually stopped offering the MacBook because of the RAM limitations at the time (16GB Max) and horrible docker performance. RAM and docker were very important for our product and whoever chose the MacBook ended up regretting it (devs only, I mean).
- proverbialbunny 6y ago
  The companies I've worked at have a "docker team" that does all of that, so everyone else can just write code. Continuous integration is enough to identify if there is a bug on Linux that isn't on OSX, but sometimes you just gotta SSH into a Linux box and build there to figure it out. Requiring docker from the get go sounds painful, but maybe that just comes from my inexperience never having to use it. Like, does CLion, PyCharm, and similar even support building into docker from the get go? Wouldn't that increase build times instead of just building it natively on your machine? Any extra level of complexity is painful until you automate it in a bug free and efficient way, I suppose.

theonemind 6y ago

I think Apple's target audience has the money to spare, so to understand, first just compare the machines and forget about the price. People also don't buy Apple as a gaming platform,and Apple buyers don't care much about performance/$ comparatively speaking, so they don't care much about performance, either. You probably care about price and performance and find that hard to grasp, but I land in the camp that (to some degree) does not care about price or performance. So, setting aside the price and performance, compare the machines setting those aside. Most other machines feel clunky by comparison. I bought an XPS 15 and had audio driver issues. The fans blow out of the bottom, which seems pretty lame for having a laptop, say, on your lap. It has a lame plastic flexy feel compared to a MacBook. A lot of people mention the XPS line as an alternative to the Macs, but I bought one to leave the Mac ecosystem, and it felt so clunky that I still just went ahead and bought another Mac after that. So, I really think it makes perfect sense if the price and performance don't much concern you.