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A JavaFX hello world app starts in around 1 second on a modern computer. Here's a small demo of a self-updating JavaFX app where you can see it being started, t

by brabel 7y ago

A JavaFX hello world app starts in around 1 second on a modern computer. Here's a small demo of a self-updating JavaFX app where you can see it being started, then built again, then re-launched with the new version: https://github.com/renatoathaydes/keepup/blob/master/docs/images/keepup-demo.gif https://github.com/renatoathaydes/keepup/blob/master/docs/im... If the author's app takes 10 seconds to boot, I am afraid they need to blame either Clojure or their own code for that.

pjmlp 7y ago
That is a common trend on JVM guest languages, to blame Java or the JVM for their impedance mismatch with the host platform. Granted, this usually only comes from those that don't bother much to learn about the underlying platform and are sometimes even agressive against what actually made their favourite guest language possible to exist.
- uryga 7y ago
  > what actually made their favourite guest language possible to exist. maybe i'm arguing semantics, but i don't think it's fair to say that the JVM "made Clojure possible" -- that's like saying "C made Python possible because CPython is written in C". iirc the JVM was chosen as a backend because that's what Clojure's creator had to work/interop with. and i think that's generally the case with "guest" languages -- there's an environment you want to write code for (JVM/ browser), but you don't want to use its "official" language (Java/JS), so you create a new language and adapt it to run there. and sure, reusing the Java stdlib and other existing code can help bootstrap a language, no doubt about that, but it's a stretch to say it makes it "possible"
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Clojure's success lies in being a Lisp that takes advantage of the JVM libraries and JVM monitoring tools, without them it would be just yet another Lisp clone like so many others since the early 60's.
    - uryga 7y ago
      i guess i was being a bit pedantic... as you say, if you look at Clojure's whole programming environment (tooling, stdlib) and not just the language itself, putting it like GP did makes sense.
brodo 7y ago
I'm building a TornadoFX app with Kotlin now and it also starts in about a second. Also there is FXLauncher ( https://github.com/edvin/fxlauncher https://github.com/edvin/fxlauncher ) which provides a native package and an auto updater for macOS, Windows and Linux.
- MaxBarraclough 7y ago
  How's TornadoFX in terms of 'lightweightness'? Presumably worse than Qt but still much lighter than Electron?

by brabel 7y ago

pjmlp 7y ago

That is a common trend on JVM guest languages, to blame Java or the JVM for their impedance mismatch with the host platform. Granted, this usually only comes from those that don't bother much to learn about the underlying platform and are sometimes even agressive against what actually made their favourite guest language possible to exist.

uryga 7y ago
> what actually made their favourite guest language possible to exist. maybe i'm arguing semantics, but i don't think it's fair to say that the JVM "made Clojure possible" -- that's like saying "C made Python possible because CPython is written in C". iirc the JVM was chosen as a backend because that's what Clojure's creator had to work/interop with. and i think that's generally the case with "guest" languages -- there's an environment you want to write code for (JVM/ browser), but you don't want to use its "official" language (Java/JS), so you create a new language and adapt it to run there. and sure, reusing the Java stdlib and other existing code can help bootstrap a language, no doubt about that, but it's a stretch to say it makes it "possible"
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Clojure's success lies in being a Lisp that takes advantage of the JVM libraries and JVM monitoring tools, without them it would be just yet another Lisp clone like so many others since the early 60's.
  - uryga 7y ago
    i guess i was being a bit pedantic... as you say, if you look at Clojure's whole programming environment (tooling, stdlib) and not just the language itself, putting it like GP did makes sense.

brodo 7y ago

I'm building a TornadoFX app with Kotlin now and it also starts in about a second. Also there is FXLauncher ( https://github.com/edvin/fxlauncher https://github.com/edvin/fxlauncher ) which provides a native package and an auto updater for macOS, Windows and Linux.

MaxBarraclough 7y ago
How's TornadoFX in terms of 'lightweightness'? Presumably worse than Qt but still much lighter than Electron?