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Work Less
- bmelton 16y ago"write it into their contract that they agree not to work a second job on their day off." In particular due to the exact language ('day off' vs. 'days off') -- If an employee's schedule is Mon-Thu, are they free to work the weekends at another job (but not the Friday), or is all moonlighting prohibited? Are they free to work on their own projects on their off days? If I'm showing bias, I apologize, but I'm a little bit offended that an employer would attempt exercise control over what their employees do in their off time. I'm not saying it isn't ever justified, but if the requirement is that they only work 4 days a week, then they're free to do what they will with the fifth, unless the assertion is that they're actually 'working' five days a week, and are just ordered to relax on the fifth day.
- bartonfink 16y agoI agree, and if I worked there I would completely ignore that clause. I wouldn't even worry about lining through it before I signed on. If they want me to give up my ability to make more money with my time, they can bloody well pay me for it. It's unconscionable and I'd like to see them try to enforce that clause on an employee who decided to do additional work.
- tptacek 16y agoDepending on the venue, moonlighting clauses range from almost completely enforceable (MA) to almost (but not entirely) nonenforceable (CA). Overshadowing all legal issues specific to moonlighting is "at-will employment", the standard in practically the whole of the US, which allows a company to fire you without cause. So, if you're moonlighting at an unrelated tech company in California, you're probably fine. But if you take an off-hours job in the same industry as your employer in New York, you can probably be fired. Generally, a prospective employer who says "we have a four day work week, but we only want team members who are going to work this one job" seems to me to be offering a fair trade. If you find those terms unconscionable, you shouldn't accept a job there.
- bmelton 16y agoWhile I generally agree, without seeing the contract, I'm left wondering exactly where the line is drawn. I accept that, since I'm not being offered an employment contract at Carsonified, it's perhaps none of my business, and that's fair -- but mostly I'm curious about the verbiage on the 'day off' bit.
- tptacek 16y agoSeriously, how do you argue with this even a little? Virtually every other employer in the world will fire you instantly for working a second job during the day on Friday, as an extension of the rule that requires them to fire you for going fishing during the day on Friday. It is beyond reasonable for an employer to require you not to work a second job on Friday in exchange for the day off. So far past reasonable I can't imagine it ever coming up the real world; team members at the 4-day-a-week would probably quit before alienating the company. A four day work week is just a huge, generous benefit.
- bmelton 16y agoI didn't necessarily say that I was arguing. I mean, it's perfectly within their right -- but, where it's generally more acceptable to allow moonlighting on the proverbial Saturdays and Sundays, if they're advertising Friday as a 'day off', then I should be free to do the same. I completely agree with your assertion that it's their right to request you not to, and I can certainly understand the logic of it, specifically in trying not to attract people looking to do the minimal work effort so that they can reap the benefits of another paycheck. Regardless, I have questions. If the Friday is a 'day off', then how is it different than Saturday and Sunday. Do they also insist that you not have a second job on those days? What specifically does it prohibit? Can I work on an open source project? Can I boostrap my own projects? What if they become successful? I was really hoping somebody from Carsonified could speak to this really, and not trying to start an argument, but I do have my own take on things -- I'd just love to know more.
- tptacek 16y ago
- dansingerman 16y agoGood point. Prohibiting what I do on my day off sounds restrictive and unfair. Being paid to relax actually sounds quite nice. Not sure it needs to be in a contract though; surely you should be judged on your performance at work (whether it is 4 or 5 days) and not external factors.
- tptacek 16y agoThis seems a bit silly. The employer's objective is to spend capital on keeping employees extra- rested and extra- content, in order to maximize productivity and minimize turnover. If you try to nerd your way out of their plan, they'll meet the objective some other way; for instance, they can simply demand that everyone show up to the office on day 5. A 32 hour work week is such a huge benefit that I can't imagine anyone actually working on such a team trying to subvert it. It's totally reasonable to have side projects and even to work a second job. I think a reasonable person stuck in the situation of wanting a second job while working for the 4-day company would simply leave the team.
- bmelton 16y agoI don't want to argue in multiple threads, but you may well have clarified one thing for me, in that it's a 32 hour work week. Honestly, I was thinking it was a 4 day work week of 10 hour shifts, which I generally prefer as it keeps me from having to break when I'm in the middle of something. Still though, you really brought your argument home when you said that (paraphrasing) "If you don't accept the trade, you shouldn't work there," because that is absolutely right. But... is it fair? If my company imposed a 'no alcoholic beverages allowed on weeknights', it's the same sort of proposition, and you're free to accept or decline it as part of the job offer, but does that make it RIGHT? I don't mean to imply that Carsonified is doing anything illicit, or immoral, and I'm sure they have great reasons for it -- but without knowing exactly where the line is drawn, it's hard (for me) to say.
- wtn 16y agoFrom my reading, it's a 40-hour workweek in which the last 8 hours are paid rest. If they weren't paid, they would have no legal basis for banning the workers from working on Friday. However, the workers may do as they like over the weekend--including working.
- tptacek 16y agoThat simply isn't true! Even in California, where anti-moonlighting clauses are very difficult to enforce, there are circumstances (conflict-of-interest being an important one) where you can't work two jobs. In many other states, all anti-moonlighting clauses are considered "reasonable" restrictions on your right to work. Sorry for the stridency, but the logic that carries you to that conclusion is dangerously faulty. The law simply doesn't see most employment, by default, as an exchange of a set number of hours for a set amount of money. The enforceable parts of your contract can make the situation far more complicated than that. For examples, see: intellectual property and trade secrets, noncompetition, conflict of interest, overtime for salaried exempt employees, anti-moonlighting, accidentally representing your company on Twitter, and so on. This stuff is very relevant to startups, as it's an easy way to torpedo yourself before you even pick a name for the company.
- wowfat 16y agoDont forget to pay them well..
- danielhunt 16y agoI'm wondering where you draw the line of what is considered moonlighting - do you mean absolutely any paid work whatsoever? What if it's nothing at all to do with their job? What if the tech guy wants to work in a dog pound for the day off, or the marketing girl wants to instruct surfing? Is it "any paid work at all"? What about unpaid/volunteering?
- yummyfajitas 16y agoI know of someone at a bank who got in trouble for offering martial arts instruction on the weekend. He wasn't fired, but he was ordered to stop.
- danielhunt 16y agoWhat possible reason could they have given to order him to stop? And what would give them the right (or make them think they had the right) to do it in the firstplace :/
- yummyfajitas 16y ago"It's just policy."
- askar_yu 16y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinsons_Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinsons_Law "Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion."
- raintrees 16y agoThis is similar to what I went through dropping work down from 7 days a week to 6, and then to 5. Clients always appear. If they had their way, I would still be working all 7 days a week, preferably 24 hours a day. As to those who are commenting about being "forced" to take the day off, I am not sure you are getting the point the author is trying to make. The whole point is not being burned out. Adding another job is a great way to reach burn-out faster. Notice I say "job." In my book, this does not include hobbies. Which, to the outside observer, may look like work only because I use many of the same tools. And if you really want to work that hard (and it was easier to get away with it when I was younger) maybe this is not the right employment for you... FWIW. I have cycled through burn-out several times, and I prefer living a healthy lifestyle, if at all possible. (Edited to be a bit less harsh than my first wording - Sorry).
- dstein 16y agoYou mean people don't work 7-to-12 days in a row until they crash, then take a day and a half off, and repeat the process over again? Pfft, lightweights.
- noverloop 16y agoWould it still be productive when the 5th day is a company-wide hackathon?
- twymer 16y agoI think it's funny a lot of comments are saying they would be angry about not being able to work on that Friday. I'm not particularly sure why you would be upset if your employer offered to pay you 40 hr/week salary and only expected you to work ~32 hours. They place value in that day assuming you will use it to rest. Working on it would be counter productive to what they see it being useful for.
- bmelton 16y agoLoss of momentum. When I'm coding, and I'm on a tear, I generally won't stop for drinks, food, or any other outside distractions. It's this exact reason that I abhor the cubicle culture so much, as it tends to invite distractions, generally when I'm in the midst of my greatest productivity. If I'm on a roll with something, I don't want to chance that I'll come back from a three day weekend every week and have to remember where I left off, or spend that time trying to get back in the groove. One of the best places I worked (now defunct) allowed for you to work hours per week -- if you worked over, you were credited it for the next week. It was great to crank out marathon sessions, and then, between projects, you could take the remainder of the time off, to rest. So if I spent 7 days straight on a project, I could take 4 days to rest and be 'neutral' on my schedule balance (assuming 8 hour days).
- twymer 16y agoI can definitely see this side of the complaints. The side I was arguing against was everyone's outrage that you couldn't just use Friday to moonlight.
- jlees 16y agoThe majority of Carsonified employees do not, however, code. I think this distinction is lost somewhere in all the anti-moonlighting ranting.
- adamhowell 16y agoAfter participating in Rails Rumble a couple of years ago a fun idea I haven't been able to shake is if it'd be possible to work 20 hours a day Saturday and Sunday and then take M-F off (plus, you'd have less online distractions during your "workweek," since it'd be everyone else's weekend).
- patio11 16y agoM-F off is highly overrated if one's passions involve other people. I have it any time I want. Unless the people important to you also have free time at 2 PM on Tuesday, it turns into lots of fungible book-or-gym time, and the little old ladies at the gym will ask you why you aren't at work.
- adamhowell 16y agoOops, I meant to reply to this. It would especially appeal to me right now because my wife stays home with my 4-year-old daughter.
- AlexC04 16y agoI would honestly love to find a workplace that did this in Canada. To be fair, I'd consider moving back to the UK for that. Bath is beautiful too. I worked in Cornwall as a supply / substitute teacher for a few months. The landscape took my breath away every single day.
- jckay 16y agoI think this is a bit idealistic. Especially in the entrepreneurial world, with your mind constantly spinning on new ideas. Sometimes it can even be challenging to take the weekend off. The one thing i just love about this is the "Do Something Cool". This is something i have tried to do even on my weekends, something as simple as take a 2-3 hour walk. Or try and get lost and find my way home. Silly stuff like that, but the second you truly relax and let your mind wander you actually start to be MORE creative. I would love to instate something where employees must take a one hour walk a week!
- dools 16y agoThe founding premise of this article is that "you get more done just before you go on holiday" which I've never noticed. I also think it's inaccurate to assume that folks generally have "hidden capacity" that will miraculously allow them to get done in 4 days what would normally have taken 5. All this boils down to is profit margin on your work: if you're able to build a pricing model where you bill clients enough to fund 15 people taking an extra day off per week, then you can move to a 4 day work week. If not, you can't.
- eunice_chen 16y agoI feel like this is a bit optimistic. There are people who waste time in a 5 day work week environment; and those same people will waste a proportionate amount of time in a 4 day work week as well because that's just the work pace theyre used to.
- gfodor 16y agoBy induction you should be able to get your entire week's worth of effort done in an hour if only you put yourself under enough pressure. As you can see, there is a flaw in this argument.
- mmt 16y agoI can't quite put my finger on the logical fallacy here, but there must be one. For example, applied to a compression algorithm, it fails, too, yet we have lossless compression.
- gfodor 16y agoNo, the difference is lossless compression algorithms have a defined lower bound on how packed the bits can get. No such lower bound has been asserted here in terms of compressing your work, just the idea that you can drop 24 hours off the end of the week with no loss of productivity. Clearly 24 hours is arbitrary, why isn't Thursday a half day? A more sound argument would be one with actual data and measurements about how reducing the workweek affected overall productivity of the team. Without that it's just opinions and guessing.
- mmt 16y ago>No such lower bound has been asserted here in terms of compressing your work, just the idea that you can drop 24 hours off the end of the week with no loss of productivity. Clearly 24 hours is arbitrary, why isn't Thursday a half day? No such lower bound is defined, but one need not be. The OP is merely stating that the lower bound is 32 hours or less. He's not dropping 24 hours off, merely 8 (or 9, that par is unclear). As another commentor points out, the lower bound on compression algorithms varies by input. This is likely true here, too.
- prodigal_erik 16y agoSadly we don't have lossless compression of all inputs, merely a subset of inputs whose content is somewhat predictable. There's no way to uniquely represent all of 2^m distinct input bitstrings using 2^n outputs where n < m. In practice we assume input that's typically used has some predictable and redundant substrings, and that makes compression a win on average. But if you try to compress a high-entropy bitstring (such as comes out of a good implementation of /dev/random with noise from hardware), you will find it gets slightly larger, because the compression algorithm has to resort to supplying a literal copy of the input plus some small metadata saying it did so.
- ryancarson 16y agoI wrote this article and I'd like to comment on all the angry "I can't believe they won't let me work on Fridays" comments. We don't have an adversarial relationship with our team. We're not checking every word of the contract and neither are they. We're all working towards a greater goal and we're all doing what it takes to get there. If someone wants to do some extra freelance work on a Friday, then we don't hassle them about it. However, if they do that, they're missing the entire point: they're getting paid a full salary, but only having to work 4 days a week for it. Why not just take Friday off and enjoy it? The whole point is that a good work-life balance is healthy, fun and fulfilling. If the money isn't good enough (even though we pay well), then maybe it's not the right job for you. No one is forcing anyone to do anything here.