5 ms·

The new deal created the middle class in America, rescued it (very lately) from the Great Depression, and set it up for the post war prosperity that made Americ

The new deal created the middle class in America, rescued it (very lately) from the Great Depression, and set it up for the post war prosperity that made America what it is today. I think the idea of a green new deal is to do that again, as well as save us from the climate grave we are digging ourselves into. In my mind it is poetry.

valuearb 6y ago
The evidence for the New Deal accomplishing any of those things is virtually non existent. For example, the 1937-38 downturn was nearly as bad as the 1930 one, and the economy wasn’t restored until WW2 started.
- bhupy 6y ago
  I believe you, but you're going to need to provide some sources for that.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Google unemployment and GDP levels.
    - bhupy 6y ago
      Provide the sources, nobody on this forum is going to jump through hoops to change their minds.
      - valuearb 6y ago
        I’m not jumping through hoops for those to lazy to find easily google-able and commonly known economic history. Any freshman economics books has the statistics too. The 1937 recession almost cost FDR the election. The unemployment rate didn’t reach normal levels again until the US entered the war.
        bhupy 6y ago
        I agree with you, I'm just giving you feedback here: if your goal is to change minds, it is in your best interest to provide sources directly. Nobody will care that you didn't want to jump through hoops if you've lost the ideological argument in the court of public opinion.
nickik 6y ago
This is just factually wrong and has no credibly outside of a few extremely left wing economists and those believe it despite the economic research or because they have not studied it. The New Deal has achieved mythical status in the left wing version of history, but that is simply not an accurate depiction of history. If you look at the numbers in detail, you would see that when the US left the Gold Standard, growth immediately came back, industrialist production skes back up. This is pretty clear pattern with all the nations who were under deflationary pressure. Leaving the gold standard (or adjusting the exchange rate) was the fundamental thing that restarted the economy. It is pretty clear that the NIRA actually stopped the ongoing recovery and indsutrial production only outpaced the pre-NIRA level again when NIRA was declared unconstitutional. Why anybody would declare the total madness of this program a success is just unbelievable to me. Massive destruction of food, mass slaughter of life-stock to increase prices. Blue Eagle program to 'keep prices high' were exactly the wrong things after a deflation. Contrary to popular history, New Deal was not some brilliantly executed Keynesian program. In fact it does not fit any economics logic at all. The US had one of the globally worst recovery path from 1931 to 1939 of all industrialized nations. Specially consider how well the came into the situation compared to everybody else. Why this period is hailed as a great success, is because it was an incredible political success as FDR managed to totally rebuild the democratic coalition. That coalition remains to this day. Of course the left and specially democrats hail it as the biggest success in centuries, because it was politically successful. And the claimed that it 'prepared' to US is mostly wrong. Roosevelt to his credit was smart enough to kick most of the New Deal idiots out of his administration going into WW2 and worked with actually sensible people and during WW2 and after the US actually removed the majority of these terrible polices and that allowed the US to recover far better then most other countries.
- hmmokidk 6y ago
  Sorry to break it to you but your analysis is totally wrong. You don’t really put forth any reasons as to why the new deal was a failure, you just say it is. Living people experienced the success of the new deal, which is why it is such a powerful phrase. If you’re going to reject reality you’re at least going to need a source or an argument.
johnchristopher 6y ago
There's another narrative in Europe about how we actually build our prosperity on the back of the southern hemisphere.
- hmmokidk 6y ago
  Yeah I don’t disagree with that but it’s a separate problem IMO. Americans don’t give a shit because if we lose our job we’re fucked, the government doesn’t give a shit about us, we’re stressed and worried all the time about things Europeans take for granted. The quality of life in the US is horrible. And if it were better people would be more capable of organizing and speaking the truth. But the truth has just been squashed in the interest of the ultra wealthy.

valuearb 6y ago

The evidence for the New Deal accomplishing any of those things is virtually non existent. For example, the 1937-38 downturn was nearly as bad as the 1930 one, and the economy wasn’t restored until WW2 started.

bhupy 6y ago
I believe you, but you're going to need to provide some sources for that.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Google unemployment and GDP levels.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    Provide the sources, nobody on this forum is going to jump through hoops to change their minds.
    - valuearb 6y ago
      I’m not jumping through hoops for those to lazy to find easily google-able and commonly known economic history. Any freshman economics books has the statistics too. The 1937 recession almost cost FDR the election. The unemployment rate didn’t reach normal levels again until the US entered the war.
      - bhupy 6y ago
        I agree with you, I'm just giving you feedback here: if your goal is to change minds, it is in your best interest to provide sources directly. Nobody will care that you didn't want to jump through hoops if you've lost the ideological argument in the court of public opinion.

nickik 6y ago

This is just factually wrong and has no credibly outside of a few extremely left wing economists and those believe it despite the economic research or because they have not studied it. The New Deal has achieved mythical status in the left wing version of history, but that is simply not an accurate depiction of history. If you look at the numbers in detail, you would see that when the US left the Gold Standard, growth immediately came back, industrialist production skes back up. This is pretty clear pattern with all the nations who were under deflationary pressure. Leaving the gold standard (or adjusting the exchange rate) was the fundamental thing that restarted the economy. It is pretty clear that the NIRA actually stopped the ongoing recovery and indsutrial production only outpaced the pre-NIRA level again when NIRA was declared unconstitutional. Why anybody would declare the total madness of this program a success is just unbelievable to me. Massive destruction of food, mass slaughter of life-stock to increase prices. Blue Eagle program to 'keep prices high' were exactly the wrong things after a deflation. Contrary to popular history, New Deal was not some brilliantly executed Keynesian program. In fact it does not fit any economics logic at all. The US had one of the globally worst recovery path from 1931 to 1939 of all industrialized nations. Specially consider how well the came into the situation compared to everybody else. Why this period is hailed as a great success, is because it was an incredible political success as FDR managed to totally rebuild the democratic coalition. That coalition remains to this day. Of course the left and specially democrats hail it as the biggest success in centuries, because it was politically successful. And the claimed that it 'prepared' to US is mostly wrong. Roosevelt to his credit was smart enough to kick most of the New Deal idiots out of his administration going into WW2 and worked with actually sensible people and during WW2 and after the US actually removed the majority of these terrible polices and that allowed the US to recover far better then most other countries.

hmmokidk 6y ago
Sorry to break it to you but your analysis is totally wrong. You don’t really put forth any reasons as to why the new deal was a failure, you just say it is. Living people experienced the success of the new deal, which is why it is such a powerful phrase. If you’re going to reject reality you’re at least going to need a source or an argument.

johnchristopher 6y ago

There's another narrative in Europe about how we actually build our prosperity on the back of the southern hemisphere.

hmmokidk 6y ago
Yeah I don’t disagree with that but it’s a separate problem IMO. Americans don’t give a shit because if we lose our job we’re fucked, the government doesn’t give a shit about us, we’re stressed and worried all the time about things Europeans take for granted. The quality of life in the US is horrible. And if it were better people would be more capable of organizing and speaking the truth. But the truth has just been squashed in the interest of the ultra wealthy.