6 ms·

Those talking about the economics appear to live in areas with abundant flour. In many places in the US at least, it's very difficult to find any. It has been

by aazaa 7y ago

Those talking about the economics appear to live in areas with abundant flour. In many places in the US at least, it's very difficult to find any. It has been this way for weeks. Supermarkets get it and it flies off the shelves.

eatonphil 7y ago
Where are you? At the big stores in Brooklyn for a while there was no flour. But now going to smaller stores I see it no problem. Seems like less of a shortage issue than just that most folks in my area are all inefficiently picking their grocery store.
- nickthegreek 7y ago
  In Columbus, Ohio here. Last week was the first time we have had flour back on the shelves and the types were limited. Still haven't seen any yeast available.
  - ddoolin 7y ago
    Newport Beach, CA here and it's been off the shelf for awhile but also recently popped back up, along with other essentials like the infamous toilet paper.
  - anoraca 7y ago
    Maybe ask a local bakery or pizza shop.
- ghaff 7y ago
  I don't need any more so haven't made a real study but I'd note that both King Arthur and Bob's Red Mill are out of their main products online. (But they're somewhat artisan so they probably have more capacity constraints than the bigger players do.)
  - lostapathy 7y ago
    I wonder how much of that is because they are out vs it's just a lot more efficient to send it by the pallet to grocers instead of one bag at a time to end users. I've seen this in other industries too - manufacturers will sell retail direct when times are "normal" because it's easy profit and they can fulfill out of "slack in the system". But when demand skyrockets they lack the slack energy to deal with retail-direct, so they just send everything through distribution.
- r0m4n0 7y ago
  Yea I live in NYC (fidi) and also been having problems finding flour. I can't necessarily travel long distances to different grocery stores because I don't want to ride the subway etc. The grocery stores around me don't have it and haven't had luck with delivery. Last week finally got costco to deliver a 50lb bag which is apparently all they have at the moment... But I think I agree with you, it's less of a true shortage and more of a supply chain to certain stores issue. Are we really consuming more flour at this point or are we just throwing all these established supply chains to completely restructure?
peeters 7y ago
In Canada, there have been supply shortages but according to Robin Hood (major Canadian flour producer), the supply issues are both at the endpoint (grocery stores not stocking enough) as well as in secondary products, e.g. they cite that there's a lack of packaging, but that their flour supply is healthy. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/robin-hood-flour-baking-yellow-bags-1.5541483 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/robin-hood-flour-baking-yel... That said regions will obviously vary. Canada is a major wheat producer.
- rhizome 7y ago
  In other words, supply-chain problems just like we're seeing in many other segments: paper products, sanitizer, rice/beans, etc.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  This is another example of our economy being so interconnected that it's really hard to tell what is and isn't essential. If you lack enough "non-essential" goods for your business, then your business doesn't work either. I just hope that the businesses relying on machines for their output aren't reliant on some obscure parts that will be impossible to source if they break.
- jschwartzi 7y ago
  This is an opportunity to reduce use of one-use packaging. Simply ship the flour in a gaylord to the point of distribution and have people bring their own canisters, tare them, and fill them.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    This is almost certainly not the time for that. Stores have eliminated a lot of their self-serve stations and even deli counters and the like.
    - jschwartzi 7y ago
      The bulk bins are still open in my neighborhood.
morley 7y ago
It seems so bizarre that so much flour is being consumed now. Are people hoarding it, or would this demand otherwise have been met from restaurants?
- peeters 7y ago
  I think it's more that people are going from purchasing fresh bread to purchasing the ingredients for fresh bread.
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    Yes, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of bread on the shelves although if you only shop once a week it might not last.
- Mtinie 7y ago
  A spike in demand for ingredients used to make baked goods. People have the time now to experiment with things they previously had an interest in but not enough motivation to see it through.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    More importantly, baking your own bread saves you a trip to grocery store. My household went from shopping 3-4 times a week to less than once a week. I.e. we no longer do the "fresh bread + some small items" morning runs, only the one bulk trip every ~10 days. That means reducing the number of opportunities to get infected or infect others by a factor of 5.
- empath75 7y ago
  https://xkcd.com/2296/ https://xkcd.com/2296/
- crazygringo 7y ago
  Baking at home has skyrocketed. When you're bored it's an easy, family-friendly rewarding way to spend a couple hours. Think about how often people bake normally. Not often. Now it's all the time. Same reason why eggs and vanilla are also harder to find in some places.
m-i-l 7y ago
In the UK, according to various sources including the BBC[0], there is plenty of flour, but one of the main problems is that most of the production lines are geared up to producing large e.g. 25kg sacks, given 96% of sales are to bulk buyers for trades like bakeries, with only 4% of flour sold direct to consumers in retail outlets in small 1kg or 1.5kg bags. I'd imagine it might not be dissimilar in many other countries too. So in the UK you should no problem buying a 25kg sack of flour from a wholesaler. There are actually lots of companies who specialise in providing food in wholesale quantities to places like schools and restaurants, most of whoch are in difficulty given their market has disappeared, although some are now temporarily selling to the general public to try to stay afloat[1]. I feel like I've learned an unexpectedly large amount about supply chains in recent weeks. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52212760 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52212760 [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52066764 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52066764
- gingericha 7y ago
  >... one of the main problems is that most of the production lines are geared up to producing large e.g. 25kg sacks, given 96% of sales are to bulk buyers for trades like bakeries, with only 4% of flour sold direct to consumers in retail outlets in small 1kg or 1.5kg bags. For anyone who's interested, The Indicator podcast by Planet Money briefly touches on this point in their most recent episode on potatoes in the US. https://www.npr.org/2020/04/23/843437140/the-great-potato-giveaway https://www.npr.org/2020/04/23/843437140/the-great-potato-gi...

by aazaa 7y ago

eatonphil 7y ago

Where are you? At the big stores in Brooklyn for a while there was no flour. But now going to smaller stores I see it no problem. Seems like less of a shortage issue than just that most folks in my area are all inefficiently picking their grocery store.

nickthegreek 7y ago
In Columbus, Ohio here. Last week was the first time we have had flour back on the shelves and the types were limited. Still haven't seen any yeast available.
- ddoolin 7y ago
  Newport Beach, CA here and it's been off the shelf for awhile but also recently popped back up, along with other essentials like the infamous toilet paper.
- anoraca 7y ago
  Maybe ask a local bakery or pizza shop.
ghaff 7y ago
I don't need any more so haven't made a real study but I'd note that both King Arthur and Bob's Red Mill are out of their main products online. (But they're somewhat artisan so they probably have more capacity constraints than the bigger players do.)
- lostapathy 7y ago
  I wonder how much of that is because they are out vs it's just a lot more efficient to send it by the pallet to grocers instead of one bag at a time to end users. I've seen this in other industries too - manufacturers will sell retail direct when times are "normal" because it's easy profit and they can fulfill out of "slack in the system". But when demand skyrockets they lack the slack energy to deal with retail-direct, so they just send everything through distribution.
r0m4n0 7y ago
Yea I live in NYC (fidi) and also been having problems finding flour. I can't necessarily travel long distances to different grocery stores because I don't want to ride the subway etc. The grocery stores around me don't have it and haven't had luck with delivery. Last week finally got costco to deliver a 50lb bag which is apparently all they have at the moment... But I think I agree with you, it's less of a true shortage and more of a supply chain to certain stores issue. Are we really consuming more flour at this point or are we just throwing all these established supply chains to completely restructure?

peeters 7y ago

In Canada, there have been supply shortages but according to Robin Hood (major Canadian flour producer), the supply issues are both at the endpoint (grocery stores not stocking enough) as well as in secondary products, e.g. they cite that there's a lack of packaging, but that their flour supply is healthy. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/robin-hood-flour-baking-yellow-bags-1.5541483 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/robin-hood-flour-baking-yel... That said regions will obviously vary. Canada is a major wheat producer.

rhizome 7y ago
In other words, supply-chain problems just like we're seeing in many other segments: paper products, sanitizer, rice/beans, etc.
Mirioron 7y ago
This is another example of our economy being so interconnected that it's really hard to tell what is and isn't essential. If you lack enough "non-essential" goods for your business, then your business doesn't work either. I just hope that the businesses relying on machines for their output aren't reliant on some obscure parts that will be impossible to source if they break.
jschwartzi 7y ago
This is an opportunity to reduce use of one-use packaging. Simply ship the flour in a gaylord to the point of distribution and have people bring their own canisters, tare them, and fill them.
- ghaff 7y ago
  This is almost certainly not the time for that. Stores have eliminated a lot of their self-serve stations and even deli counters and the like.
  - jschwartzi 7y ago
    The bulk bins are still open in my neighborhood.

morley 7y ago

It seems so bizarre that so much flour is being consumed now. Are people hoarding it, or would this demand otherwise have been met from restaurants?

peeters 7y ago
I think it's more that people are going from purchasing fresh bread to purchasing the ingredients for fresh bread.
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  Yes, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of bread on the shelves although if you only shop once a week it might not last.
Mtinie 7y ago
A spike in demand for ingredients used to make baked goods. People have the time now to experiment with things they previously had an interest in but not enough motivation to see it through.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  More importantly, baking your own bread saves you a trip to grocery store. My household went from shopping 3-4 times a week to less than once a week. I.e. we no longer do the "fresh bread + some small items" morning runs, only the one bulk trip every ~10 days. That means reducing the number of opportunities to get infected or infect others by a factor of 5.
empath75 7y ago
https://xkcd.com/2296/ https://xkcd.com/2296/
crazygringo 7y ago
Baking at home has skyrocketed. When you're bored it's an easy, family-friendly rewarding way to spend a couple hours. Think about how often people bake normally. Not often. Now it's all the time. Same reason why eggs and vanilla are also harder to find in some places.

m-i-l 7y ago

In the UK, according to various sources including the BBC[0], there is plenty of flour, but one of the main problems is that most of the production lines are geared up to producing large e.g. 25kg sacks, given 96% of sales are to bulk buyers for trades like bakeries, with only 4% of flour sold direct to consumers in retail outlets in small 1kg or 1.5kg bags. I'd imagine it might not be dissimilar in many other countries too. So in the UK you should no problem buying a 25kg sack of flour from a wholesaler. There are actually lots of companies who specialise in providing food in wholesale quantities to places like schools and restaurants, most of whoch are in difficulty given their market has disappeared, although some are now temporarily selling to the general public to try to stay afloat[1]. I feel like I've learned an unexpectedly large amount about supply chains in recent weeks. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52212760 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52212760 [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52066764 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52066764

gingericha 7y ago
>... one of the main problems is that most of the production lines are geared up to producing large e.g. 25kg sacks, given 96% of sales are to bulk buyers for trades like bakeries, with only 4% of flour sold direct to consumers in retail outlets in small 1kg or 1.5kg bags. For anyone who's interested, The Indicator podcast by Planet Money briefly touches on this point in their most recent episode on potatoes in the US. https://www.npr.org/2020/04/23/843437140/the-great-potato-giveaway https://www.npr.org/2020/04/23/843437140/the-great-potato-gi...