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> “You’d never hear anyone say, ‘We help mechanical engineers be agile." I have literally heard this pitch.

by thaeli 6y ago

ashtonkem 6y ago
The chance of something being pitched is correlated more strongly with it making money than with it actually being a sane idea.
- Florin_Andrei 6y ago
  > The chance of something being pitched is correlated more strongly with it making money than with it actually being a sane idea. More generally, it's correlated to it bringing some real or perceived advantage to the person doing the talk. I mean, have you been watching the news lately?
0x262d 6y ago
It wasn't by a Boeing exec, was it lol? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-05-09/former-boeing-engineers-say-relentless-cost-cutting-sacrificed-safety https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-05-09/former-bo...
meheleventyone 6y ago
Yup, I've an Aunt who works for an environment agency that now does all her work using Agile down to Sprints etc. which is mildly confusing.
- mindcrime 6y ago
  There really is no methodology called "Agile". There are things like Scrum, SAFE, AUP, XP, etc. Some of those may or may not mandate things like "sprints", but the essence of agile (the Agile Manifesto) doesn't even mention the term "sprint". The closest it gets to that is where it say: We follow these principles: <snip> Deliver working software frequently, from a couple of weeks to a couple of months, with a preference to the shorter timescale. <snip>
  - meheleventyone 6y ago
    Oh for sure, but that doesn't mean she isn't doing something she's been told is Agile and involves Sprints.
    - mindcrime 6y ago
      Yeah. :-( It bugs me to no end when companies do that, but what can ya do?
  - james_s_tayler 6y ago
    The funny thing about the agile manifesto is that it doesn't actually say anything remotely related to process. It basically states a set of attributes your process should exhibit. Agile as I have experienced it in practice almost never displays those attributes. The whole thing makes very little sense. I mean read it. >"We are uncovering better ways of developing software by doing it and helping others do it. Through this work we have come to value: Individuals and interactions over processes and tools Working software over comprehensive documentation Customer collaboration over contract negotiation Responding to change over following a plan That is, while there is value in the items on the right, we value the items on the left more." How the hell do you get from that to where we are today? What it ought to say is: "We value short feedback loops that minimize risk and maximize learning. We value flexibility. We welcome change. We don't know what we are doing, only what we intend to do. The outcome is a guess. Our guesses could always be better. We strive to make them so."

> “You’d never hear anyone say, ‘We help mechanical engineers be agile." I have literally heard this pitch.

by thaeli 6y ago

> “You’d never hear anyone say, ‘We help mechanical engineers be agile." I have literally heard this pitch.

The chance of something being pitched is correlated more strongly with it making money than with it actually being a sane idea.

Florin_Andrei 6y ago
> The chance of something being pitched is correlated more strongly with it making money than with it actually being a sane idea. More generally, it's correlated to it bringing some real or perceived advantage to the person doing the talk. I mean, have you been watching the news lately?

0x262d 6y ago

It wasn't by a Boeing exec, was it lol? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-05-09/former-boeing-engineers-say-relentless-cost-cutting-sacrificed-safety https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-05-09/former-bo...

meheleventyone 6y ago

Yup, I've an Aunt who works for an environment agency that now does all her work using Agile down to Sprints etc. which is mildly confusing.

mindcrime 6y ago
There really is no methodology called "Agile". There are things like Scrum, SAFE, AUP, XP, etc. Some of those may or may not mandate things like "sprints", but the essence of agile (the Agile Manifesto) doesn't even mention the term "sprint". The closest it gets to that is where it say: We follow these principles: <snip> Deliver working software frequently, from a couple of weeks to a couple of months, with a preference to the shorter timescale. <snip>
- meheleventyone 6y ago
  Oh for sure, but that doesn't mean she isn't doing something she's been told is Agile and involves Sprints.
  - mindcrime 6y ago
    Yeah. :-( It bugs me to no end when companies do that, but what can ya do?
- james_s_tayler 6y ago
  The funny thing about the agile manifesto is that it doesn't actually say anything remotely related to process. It basically states a set of attributes your process should exhibit. Agile as I have experienced it in practice almost never displays those attributes. The whole thing makes very little sense. I mean read it. >"We are uncovering better ways of developing software by doing it and helping others do it. Through this work we have come to value: Individuals and interactions over processes and tools Working software over comprehensive documentation Customer collaboration over contract negotiation Responding to change over following a plan That is, while there is value in the items on the right, we value the items on the left more." How the hell do you get from that to where we are today? What it ought to say is: "We value short feedback loops that minimize risk and maximize learning. We value flexibility. We welcome change. We don't know what we are doing, only what we intend to do. The outcome is a guess. Our guesses could always be better. We strive to make them so."