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Honestly, ever since i moved from a pure linux environment, to just using Windows 10 pro, I have had 0 issues, and have spent a significantly smaller amount of

Honestly, ever since i moved from a pure linux environment, to just using Windows 10 pro, I have had 0 issues, and have spent a significantly smaller amount of time tweaking my environment settings. I get why some people would want a bare-metal OEM install of linux for technical reasons (some languages/tools just run better on linux, or are only available on linux), but I really don't understand the hate people have for Windows 10. With the WSL, I've actually got a linux shell I can pop into whenever the need comes up, as well.

corndoge 6y ago
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. I also like WSL but the lack of a functional network stack is limiting.
- holtalanm 6y ago
  Embrace, Extend, Extinguish hasn't been the Microsoft mantra for years now. I mean, I get it, 90's Microsoft burned you, but come on, that was 30 years ago now.
slipheen 6y ago
I don't hate Windows 10 by any means, I just find Linux works better for me. I use a Thinkpad and all the drivers work fine without tweaking, so that's not an issue for my setup. Personally, I just really like the little features I get with Linux. For example, I have a little script that recognizes when I insert a certain encrypted SD card, and automatically copies over some config files from my home directory. There may be a way to do that on Windows, it's just so much easier on Linux that Windows doesn't seem worth the trouble.
- Kuinox 6y ago
  It's much easier on Linux because you know how to do it on Linux.
  - slipheen 6y ago
    Totally could be! I'm sure a bunch of people are more familiar with Windows, so they find that easier. There's probably a way to do it with Powershell and the Event Viewer. But since I personally find Linux more straightforward, it makes sense to me to use Linux on bare metal when I can :)
- holtalanm 6y ago
  All of your statements make perfect sense. I was more addressing the comments that were acting like Windows was some kind of toxic sludge they had to swim through to get to a linux install.
  - Lio 6y ago
    Much of that stems from the days when Microsoft used to threaten OEMs that offered an alternative to Windows. I don't want to use Windows. That's not because Windows is bad it's because I like Linux and want to have good Linux experience. That Microsoft has previously used try to stop that leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
- passthejoe 6y ago
  Every OS has its quirks and things it does well or poorly.
Igelau 6y ago
Mileage varies. I have a Lenovo that dual boots into Win10 or Centos 7. Trying to get my usb audio interface to work on Windows 10 involves messing with some janky ASIO driver that barely works with anything. OBS? There's a plugin on GitHub with no documentation. Audacity? Here's a 1.x build with vendor modifications to get ASIO to work. I was about to send the thing back when I thought I'd boot Centos 7 and try it. It was 100% plug-and-play. Pulse audio device just shows up. No issues.
- holtalanm 6y ago
  definitely mileage varies. like I said, I understand why some want a bare-metal install of linux for reasons like the one you described. It goes both ways for sure. Some things have better support on linux, and some have better support on windows.
pixxel 6y ago
“but I really don't understand the hate people have for Windows 10” The constant dialling home to Microsoft? I’ve not used Windows since Vista but my partner uses W10. She’s working from home on it and my PiHole is working overtime. W10 is not just dialling home to Microsoft but also to all the preinstalled software such as Netflix which she never ever uses. It’s her work machine so I can’t cleanse it of the various crap on it but I’m intrigued to know if the telemetry/updates/nags can be blocked on the machine rather than via a PiHole (and by blocked I don’t mean any Microsoft supplied privacy options via a UI toggle switch or two).
- holtalanm 6y ago
  > W10 is not just dialling home to Microsoft but also to all the preinstalled software such as Netflix which she never ever uses. That behavior is entirely up to the app that installed, though. Dunno what Microsoft has to do with Netflix, last I checked they were separate companies. > The constant dialling home to Microsoft? My opinion on the matter: so what? If whatever telemetry data they send back along with logs and other junk helps improve the OS experience, then go for it, I say.
  - SahAssar 6y ago
    > > The constant dialling home to Microsoft? > My opinion on the matter: so what? I understand that everyone has different opinions on this topic, but to me it's indefensible to allow this kind of surveillance without opt-in (or at the very least opt-out). I think it's a grotesque violation of privacy and does not consider the risks it poses to all the people who actually need or want privacy.
passthejoe 6y ago
I had the same thought as you. When I got a new laptop, I left Win 10 on it and got Ubuntu in the WSL. After about 2 years, I went to Debian Stable. The biggest pro about Win 10 is that it handles 1080p resolution so well. Why Linux distros are not "tuned" to 1080p out of the box, I don't know, because there are few non-HD laptops out there these days. But the Win 10 cons drove me away: * Terrible driver support from vendors (what's broken stays broken, I had sound issues that were never going to be resolved) * Windows 10 updates are horrible, and they kill your productivity. I had a couple of incidents where I couldn't use the laptop for DAYS at a time. * I really missed the sane package management you get from a good Linux distro. I never tried Choclatey, so maybe that would have made me a happier Windows user. * WSL is great, and so are Git and all the other Unix/Linux-originated apps I was using. After awhile I figured, "I don't use MS Office or Adobe apps, so I might as well just run the Linuxy stuff I use on a real Linux."
- holtalanm 6y ago
  as far as package management on windows is concerned, i use Scoop: https://scoop.sh/ https://scoop.sh/ It is better than Chocolatey, imo, because the packages are installed into your user directory rather than into Program Files. Also, the packages appear to be kept up to date much better than Choco. Really, the reason I left linux originally was partially because of the screen issue you mention. That, and driver issues with Thunderbolt 3. Don't know if it is any better now, but when I left, Thunderbolt 3 display drivers were horrendous on linux.
mattdm 6y ago
For me, it's not that Windows is bad, or even that Linux is somehow technically better.* The cool thing about Linux (Fedora or whatever else!) is that it's the operating system that belongs to us, the people. That's amazing. I have no judgment at all against people who have other priorities and, like, just need to get their job done. (* I mean, it is, obvious,y but that's not the point)
- holtalanm 6y ago
  > The cool thing about Linux (Fedora or whatever else!) is that it's the operating system that belongs to us, the people. That's amazing 100% agree. I would love to have a solid desktop experience in linux where everything just works without having to spend a week configuring drivers and other crap just so I can be productive. But, it is what it is. Others have said they had issues with drivers on Windows 10, so clearly there are downsides to both.

corndoge 6y ago

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. I also like WSL but the lack of a functional network stack is limiting.

holtalanm 6y ago
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish hasn't been the Microsoft mantra for years now. I mean, I get it, 90's Microsoft burned you, but come on, that was 30 years ago now.

slipheen 6y ago

I don't hate Windows 10 by any means, I just find Linux works better for me. I use a Thinkpad and all the drivers work fine without tweaking, so that's not an issue for my setup. Personally, I just really like the little features I get with Linux. For example, I have a little script that recognizes when I insert a certain encrypted SD card, and automatically copies over some config files from my home directory. There may be a way to do that on Windows, it's just so much easier on Linux that Windows doesn't seem worth the trouble.

Kuinox 6y ago
It's much easier on Linux because you know how to do it on Linux.
- slipheen 6y ago
  Totally could be! I'm sure a bunch of people are more familiar with Windows, so they find that easier. There's probably a way to do it with Powershell and the Event Viewer. But since I personally find Linux more straightforward, it makes sense to me to use Linux on bare metal when I can :)
holtalanm 6y ago
All of your statements make perfect sense. I was more addressing the comments that were acting like Windows was some kind of toxic sludge they had to swim through to get to a linux install.
- Lio 6y ago
  Much of that stems from the days when Microsoft used to threaten OEMs that offered an alternative to Windows. I don't want to use Windows. That's not because Windows is bad it's because I like Linux and want to have good Linux experience. That Microsoft has previously used try to stop that leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
passthejoe 6y ago
Every OS has its quirks and things it does well or poorly.

Igelau 6y ago

Mileage varies. I have a Lenovo that dual boots into Win10 or Centos 7. Trying to get my usb audio interface to work on Windows 10 involves messing with some janky ASIO driver that barely works with anything. OBS? There's a plugin on GitHub with no documentation. Audacity? Here's a 1.x build with vendor modifications to get ASIO to work. I was about to send the thing back when I thought I'd boot Centos 7 and try it. It was 100% plug-and-play. Pulse audio device just shows up. No issues.

holtalanm 6y ago
definitely mileage varies. like I said, I understand why some want a bare-metal install of linux for reasons like the one you described. It goes both ways for sure. Some things have better support on linux, and some have better support on windows.

pixxel 6y ago

“but I really don't understand the hate people have for Windows 10” The constant dialling home to Microsoft? I’ve not used Windows since Vista but my partner uses W10. She’s working from home on it and my PiHole is working overtime. W10 is not just dialling home to Microsoft but also to all the preinstalled software such as Netflix which she never ever uses. It’s her work machine so I can’t cleanse it of the various crap on it but I’m intrigued to know if the telemetry/updates/nags can be blocked on the machine rather than via a PiHole (and by blocked I don’t mean any Microsoft supplied privacy options via a UI toggle switch or two).

holtalanm 6y ago
> W10 is not just dialling home to Microsoft but also to all the preinstalled software such as Netflix which she never ever uses. That behavior is entirely up to the app that installed, though. Dunno what Microsoft has to do with Netflix, last I checked they were separate companies. > The constant dialling home to Microsoft? My opinion on the matter: so what? If whatever telemetry data they send back along with logs and other junk helps improve the OS experience, then go for it, I say.
- SahAssar 6y ago
  > > The constant dialling home to Microsoft? > My opinion on the matter: so what? I understand that everyone has different opinions on this topic, but to me it's indefensible to allow this kind of surveillance without opt-in (or at the very least opt-out). I think it's a grotesque violation of privacy and does not consider the risks it poses to all the people who actually need or want privacy.

passthejoe 6y ago

I had the same thought as you. When I got a new laptop, I left Win 10 on it and got Ubuntu in the WSL. After about 2 years, I went to Debian Stable. The biggest pro about Win 10 is that it handles 1080p resolution so well. Why Linux distros are not "tuned" to 1080p out of the box, I don't know, because there are few non-HD laptops out there these days. But the Win 10 cons drove me away: * Terrible driver support from vendors (what's broken stays broken, I had sound issues that were never going to be resolved) * Windows 10 updates are horrible, and they kill your productivity. I had a couple of incidents where I couldn't use the laptop for DAYS at a time. * I really missed the sane package management you get from a good Linux distro. I never tried Choclatey, so maybe that would have made me a happier Windows user. * WSL is great, and so are Git and all the other Unix/Linux-originated apps I was using. After awhile I figured, "I don't use MS Office or Adobe apps, so I might as well just run the Linuxy stuff I use on a real Linux."

holtalanm 6y ago
as far as package management on windows is concerned, i use Scoop: https://scoop.sh/ https://scoop.sh/ It is better than Chocolatey, imo, because the packages are installed into your user directory rather than into Program Files. Also, the packages appear to be kept up to date much better than Choco. Really, the reason I left linux originally was partially because of the screen issue you mention. That, and driver issues with Thunderbolt 3. Don't know if it is any better now, but when I left, Thunderbolt 3 display drivers were horrendous on linux.

mattdm 6y ago

For me, it's not that Windows is bad, or even that Linux is somehow technically better.* The cool thing about Linux (Fedora or whatever else!) is that it's the operating system that belongs to us, the people. That's amazing. I have no judgment at all against people who have other priorities and, like, just need to get their job done. (* I mean, it is, obvious,y but that's not the point)

holtalanm 6y ago
> The cool thing about Linux (Fedora or whatever else!) is that it's the operating system that belongs to us, the people. That's amazing 100% agree. I would love to have a solid desktop experience in linux where everything just works without having to spend a week configuring drivers and other crap just so I can be productive. But, it is what it is. Others have said they had issues with drivers on Windows 10, so clearly there are downsides to both.