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“being able to voice concerns to upper management where people actually listen“ I think that’s what’s missing in most companies. We have 360 reviews, retrospec

“being able to voice concerns to upper management where people actually listen“ I think that’s what’s missing in most companies. We have 360 reviews, retrospectives and all kinds of stuff but there is no feedback channel up the chain. At my company whenever there are obvious problems management secludes itself and then a solution will be revealed to the underlings who never got heard. Especially in tech it’s pretty safe to assume that engineers at the bottom of the pyramid are as intelligent and educated as people further up the chain so I think their input is valuable.

btilly 7y ago
This problem is endemic. It is human nature that when talking to your boss you put things in the most optimistic way that fits your understanding, and your boss hears it even more optimistically. After a few steps up the chain this results in a complete disconnect from reality. http://www.stamey.info/Humor/shithappens.htm http://www.stamey.info/Humor/shithappens.htm is a humorous but basically accurate take on the dynamic. Now, you say, reality eventually intrudes. Yes, but it is normal for upper management to not realize that deadlines will slip until about 2 weeks before they do. And will continue to think it is about 2 weeks off indefinitely.
- Jtsummers 7y ago
  > It is human nature that when talking to your boss you put things in the most optimistic way that fits your understanding, and your boss hears it even more optimistically. After a few steps up the chain this results in a complete disconnect from reality. I learned this the hard way, maybe 3 months into my first real job. I was testing safety critical systems, but it was still being developed so the tests procedures were also being developed and executed. I was asked for my status, I said: I've tested about 60% of the system (this one was small enough that that sort of statement was actually valid), everything has passed so far. My boss heard: Everything passed. He released the build to the customer, who found a failure almost immediately (about the same time I did, but I had no idea it had been released). I was taken into a conference room and chewed out for making us look like amateurs (we were, when it came to software). I learned several things: 1) I needed a new job; 2) Never use the words "done", "everything", "all" until everything is actually all done, managers only hear those words and nothing else. > Now, you say, reality eventually intrudes. Yes, but it is normal for upper management to not realize that deadlines will slip until about 2 weeks before they do. And will continue to think it is about 2 weeks off indefinitely. A manager, fortunately not mine I was his peer though he got promoted for his "successes", would always say that his products never shipped late. "How can you say that? I know your last release was 3 months late." "We updated the schedule and we hit the new schedule." "But you didn't update it until the last month. It was 2 months late by then already." "But we hit the final scheduled release date." He just got lucky that the customers weren't loud enough for his boss to realize the spectacular, repeated failure until after he got promoted. The new manager got hit with it instead.
  - karatestomp 7y ago
    I too have seen that hears-half-of-what-you-said-and-only-the-good-parts, then gets mad at you because they are shitty listeners, in action. Hell, I've seen it with a guy who appeared to constantly be taking diligent notes, they were just very often incorrect! It's infuriating and there's no arguing with them because they just think you're lying or misremembering (even if you also took notes, or even prepared them in advance then read from them, and, unlike theirs, yours don't suck). The only way to deal with it is to communicate in writing.

btilly 7y ago

This problem is endemic. It is human nature that when talking to your boss you put things in the most optimistic way that fits your understanding, and your boss hears it even more optimistically. After a few steps up the chain this results in a complete disconnect from reality. http://www.stamey.info/Humor/shithappens.htm http://www.stamey.info/Humor/shithappens.htm is a humorous but basically accurate take on the dynamic. Now, you say, reality eventually intrudes. Yes, but it is normal for upper management to not realize that deadlines will slip until about 2 weeks before they do. And will continue to think it is about 2 weeks off indefinitely.

Jtsummers 7y ago
> It is human nature that when talking to your boss you put things in the most optimistic way that fits your understanding, and your boss hears it even more optimistically. After a few steps up the chain this results in a complete disconnect from reality. I learned this the hard way, maybe 3 months into my first real job. I was testing safety critical systems, but it was still being developed so the tests procedures were also being developed and executed. I was asked for my status, I said: I've tested about 60% of the system (this one was small enough that that sort of statement was actually valid), everything has passed so far. My boss heard: Everything passed. He released the build to the customer, who found a failure almost immediately (about the same time I did, but I had no idea it had been released). I was taken into a conference room and chewed out for making us look like amateurs (we were, when it came to software). I learned several things: 1) I needed a new job; 2) Never use the words "done", "everything", "all" until everything is actually all done, managers only hear those words and nothing else. > Now, you say, reality eventually intrudes. Yes, but it is normal for upper management to not realize that deadlines will slip until about 2 weeks before they do. And will continue to think it is about 2 weeks off indefinitely. A manager, fortunately not mine I was his peer though he got promoted for his "successes", would always say that his products never shipped late. "How can you say that? I know your last release was 3 months late." "We updated the schedule and we hit the new schedule." "But you didn't update it until the last month. It was 2 months late by then already." "But we hit the final scheduled release date." He just got lucky that the customers weren't loud enough for his boss to realize the spectacular, repeated failure until after he got promoted. The new manager got hit with it instead.
- karatestomp 7y ago
  I too have seen that hears-half-of-what-you-said-and-only-the-good-parts, then gets mad at you because they are shitty listeners, in action. Hell, I've seen it with a guy who appeared to constantly be taking diligent notes, they were just very often incorrect! It's infuriating and there's no arguing with them because they just think you're lying or misremembering (even if you also took notes, or even prepared them in advance then read from them, and, unlike theirs, yours don't suck). The only way to deal with it is to communicate in writing.