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Sounds like having priorities that go beyond making money or having career success. Nothing wrong with that, but it may be something to make peace with.

the_af 6y ago
Yes, of course. To elaborate, most people (outside the HN bubble) have these priorities, they are good priorities to have, and these people work in tech. Therefore, advice starting with "move to SV" applies only to an extremely small subset of programmers worldwide, and as such, is not very helpful. If the career advice is "ditch everything in your life, become magically younger, live in a country you don't like, ditch friends and family, and generally live for work, and then you'll maybe succeed at having a tech job", that's... less than useful. Maybe if you're young and starting.
- strken 6y ago
  Someone who is reading this conversation will benefit from being told that moving to the Bay Area, New York, Berlin, Sydney, Amsterdam etc. for a couple of years is possible. Maybe it's not you, and that's fine. In general, though, helpful advice is about choosing the right side of a trade-off, not a panacea.
  - the_af 6y ago
    It's more than "maybe it's not you": it's not most people outside the HN bubble where SV is the mecca and everyone wants to join a US startup. Yes, there are trade-offs involved in every choice (except age, of course: that's not a trade-off, you cannot choose to become younger and be picked for low-wage trainee job positions that are only offered to young people), but I don't get why we're so fixated in such specific trade-off options. In the spirit of the article, which warns about optimistic people arguing for unrealistic paths, I'm just warning that "move to SV" is not, for most people, reasonable advice. Now, you may argue that for people reading HN, there is a larger subset which do aspire and would benefit from moving to SV. I won't argue against that. But I thought the spirit of the article was not about providing career advice for such a small subset of tech-minded people. To sum up, this proposition is false for most people (and not just me): "everyone passionate about technology should, all else being equal, strive to move to Silicon Valley and work there, because that's the best place there is".
- solidasparagus 6y ago
  In a discussion about career advice, saying "move to where the most and best paying jobs are" is absolutely good advice. It may not work for everyone, but that advice applies to far more people than 'an extremely small subset'. It applies outside of tech too.

the_af 6y ago

Yes, of course. To elaborate, most people (outside the HN bubble) have these priorities, they are good priorities to have, and these people work in tech. Therefore, advice starting with "move to SV" applies only to an extremely small subset of programmers worldwide, and as such, is not very helpful. If the career advice is "ditch everything in your life, become magically younger, live in a country you don't like, ditch friends and family, and generally live for work, and then you'll maybe succeed at having a tech job", that's... less than useful. Maybe if you're young and starting.

strken 6y ago
Someone who is reading this conversation will benefit from being told that moving to the Bay Area, New York, Berlin, Sydney, Amsterdam etc. for a couple of years is possible. Maybe it's not you, and that's fine. In general, though, helpful advice is about choosing the right side of a trade-off, not a panacea.
- the_af 6y ago
  It's more than "maybe it's not you": it's not most people outside the HN bubble where SV is the mecca and everyone wants to join a US startup. Yes, there are trade-offs involved in every choice (except age, of course: that's not a trade-off, you cannot choose to become younger and be picked for low-wage trainee job positions that are only offered to young people), but I don't get why we're so fixated in such specific trade-off options. In the spirit of the article, which warns about optimistic people arguing for unrealistic paths, I'm just warning that "move to SV" is not, for most people, reasonable advice. Now, you may argue that for people reading HN, there is a larger subset which do aspire and would benefit from moving to SV. I won't argue against that. But I thought the spirit of the article was not about providing career advice for such a small subset of tech-minded people. To sum up, this proposition is false for most people (and not just me): "everyone passionate about technology should, all else being equal, strive to move to Silicon Valley and work there, because that's the best place there is".
solidasparagus 6y ago
In a discussion about career advice, saying "move to where the most and best paying jobs are" is absolutely good advice. It may not work for everyone, but that advice applies to far more people than 'an extremely small subset'. It applies outside of tech too.