5 ms·

In the USA most doctors doing residency would get an immediate pay bump if they went on unemployment.

by ericmcer 7y ago

core-questions 7y ago
Oh, no, won't someone think of the poor doctors and their salaries!
- malcolmgreaves 7y ago
  Hardest working, highly skilled and intelligent, absolutely essential to society -- we should pay doctors a wonderful premium for them sacrificing a decade of their lives to get the education that lets them confidently save lives all day long.
  - smooth_remmy 7y ago
    And we do pay them very very.... very well. Doctors are the highest paid job in every state: https://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paying-job-in-every-us-state-2019-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paying-job-in-every-... Doctors earn a median salary of 313k (its around 100k for software engineers): https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/911668 https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/911668 Our doctors earn about 3x as much as other first world countries.
    - LeoTinnitus 7y ago
      Most of the time when I interact with a doctor, they're just entering in information into a database. Maybe we could bust this guild of ridiculous standards to maybe squeeze in a few others? I don't get why we gotta firstly work our doctors to death, and secondly ensure they are "the best." Seriously, sometimes "good enough" is just that. Just don't let junior doctors make critical decisions for people until theyve got a few years and show skill. I don't know, kinda like every other job. I'm not saying like let any schmuck do it, but any I crazy or is it not obsessive how high the barrier to entry is? That's bs purported by lobbiests and guilds of doctors trying to keep people out to keep their demand and wages high. It's the inverse of how a union (whereas this is a guild of skilled laborers not paying dues) abuse this.
      - three_seagrass 7y ago
        It's not just about the labor, it's also about the liability and risk mitigation. Most diagnosis and treatment decisions are made by the doctor because they typically face the consequences if they are wrong.
        LeoTinnitus 7y ago
        You can blame US law for that. Why not treat them like a prosecutor once they've reached a certain expertise or status? It keeps them from any absurd liability because it's guarded by the state. I'd like to ask why doctor is going to intentionally put someones life at risk cause they're lazy? Sure you'll find some in government work, but if it's government, they'll easily have oversight.
        mywittyname 7y ago
        They can also blame themselves. My partner was a healthcare worker (medical surgical) named in several lawsuits because someone on their floor fucked up and now some person is suffering. It's expensive to care for someone whose been disabled due to malpractice, so suing for even nominal damages is going to be expensive. People make mistakes and sometimes they are deadly. This doesn't just happen to "lazy" doctors. If someone could die every time you introduced a bug, you still couldn't write bug free code.
      - zaphod12 7y ago
        and that data entry is the number 1 source of burnout for medical professionals. (https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-physician-relationships/i-hate-being-a-data-entry-specialist-400-physicians-on-the-effects-of-burnout-ehrs.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-physician-rel...) There are services now which allow the doctor to film their interaction with a payment and then a lower paid person transcribe and do data entry. It's remarkable that we've come to that. On the other side, PAs and NPs are taking on an ever increasing amount of healthcare responsibilities and are rapidly growing professions that barely existed a few years ago. (https://www.aanp.org/news-feed/nurse-practitioner-role-continues-to-grow-to-meet-primary-care-provider-shortages-and-patient-demands https://www.aanp.org/news-feed/nurse-practitioner-role-conti...)
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      Isn't a good chunk of that salary typically eaten by professional liability insurance?
      - smooth_remmy 7y ago
        From just a random source: "The average cost of Medical Malpractice Insurance is $7,500 annually. However, there many types of doctors and countless insurance variables. Keep this in mind when searching for coverage. Surgeons pay between $30,000 and $50,000 a year." https://howmuch.net/costs/medical-malpractice-insurance https://howmuch.net/costs/medical-malpractice-insurance So for most doctors its about 2% of pre-tax salary
        TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Thanks for this data point, I stand corrected!
throwaway5752 7y ago
That's not a fair point. People here talk about guilds and apprenticeships occasionally and that's what residencies are. You have a high, secure lifetime salary afterwards. It's a hard job, but it's just a career stage in an otherwise lucrative (although sometimes a difficult, stressful, and dangerous) career path.
seattle_spring 7y ago
Can you provide evidence to your claim? Not to mention that even if it were true, it would prevent or delay them from making $200k to $1m / year after residency. Hardly seems like a worthwhile trade-off.
kingkawn 7y ago
A quick search says the average us residency salary is $61,200 as of 2019, which is above the unemployment maximum even taking into account the additional $600 a week in pandemic funding.
- skellera 7y ago
  I think they’re going off a per hour basis. If a resident is working an 80 hour week, they aren’t getting paid much per hour.
yardie 7y ago
The pay for residents isn't bad compared to the rest of the country. But they do work crazy hours. $/hr they are making like $18/hour x 18 hours/day x 10 day rotation. They wouldn't get a pay bump by going on UI. They would get more sleep.

In the USA most doctors doing residency would get an immediate pay bump if they went on unemployment.

core-questions 7y ago

Oh, no, won't someone think of the poor doctors and their salaries!

malcolmgreaves 7y ago
Hardest working, highly skilled and intelligent, absolutely essential to society -- we should pay doctors a wonderful premium for them sacrificing a decade of their lives to get the education that lets them confidently save lives all day long.
- smooth_remmy 7y ago
  And we do pay them very very.... very well. Doctors are the highest paid job in every state: https://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paying-job-in-every-us-state-2019-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paying-job-in-every-... Doctors earn a median salary of 313k (its around 100k for software engineers): https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/911668 https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/911668 Our doctors earn about 3x as much as other first world countries.
  - LeoTinnitus 7y ago
    Most of the time when I interact with a doctor, they're just entering in information into a database. Maybe we could bust this guild of ridiculous standards to maybe squeeze in a few others? I don't get why we gotta firstly work our doctors to death, and secondly ensure they are "the best." Seriously, sometimes "good enough" is just that. Just don't let junior doctors make critical decisions for people until theyve got a few years and show skill. I don't know, kinda like every other job. I'm not saying like let any schmuck do it, but any I crazy or is it not obsessive how high the barrier to entry is? That's bs purported by lobbiests and guilds of doctors trying to keep people out to keep their demand and wages high. It's the inverse of how a union (whereas this is a guild of skilled laborers not paying dues) abuse this.
    - three_seagrass 7y ago
      It's not just about the labor, it's also about the liability and risk mitigation. Most diagnosis and treatment decisions are made by the doctor because they typically face the consequences if they are wrong.
      - LeoTinnitus 7y ago
        You can blame US law for that. Why not treat them like a prosecutor once they've reached a certain expertise or status? It keeps them from any absurd liability because it's guarded by the state. I'd like to ask why doctor is going to intentionally put someones life at risk cause they're lazy? Sure you'll find some in government work, but if it's government, they'll easily have oversight.
        mywittyname 7y ago
        They can also blame themselves. My partner was a healthcare worker (medical surgical) named in several lawsuits because someone on their floor fucked up and now some person is suffering. It's expensive to care for someone whose been disabled due to malpractice, so suing for even nominal damages is going to be expensive. People make mistakes and sometimes they are deadly. This doesn't just happen to "lazy" doctors. If someone could die every time you introduced a bug, you still couldn't write bug free code.
    - zaphod12 7y ago
      and that data entry is the number 1 source of burnout for medical professionals. (https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-physician-relationships/i-hate-being-a-data-entry-specialist-400-physicians-on-the-effects-of-burnout-ehrs.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-physician-rel...) There are services now which allow the doctor to film their interaction with a payment and then a lower paid person transcribe and do data entry. It's remarkable that we've come to that. On the other side, PAs and NPs are taking on an ever increasing amount of healthcare responsibilities and are rapidly growing professions that barely existed a few years ago. (https://www.aanp.org/news-feed/nurse-practitioner-role-continues-to-grow-to-meet-primary-care-provider-shortages-and-patient-demands https://www.aanp.org/news-feed/nurse-practitioner-role-conti...)
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Isn't a good chunk of that salary typically eaten by professional liability insurance?
    - smooth_remmy 7y ago
      From just a random source: "The average cost of Medical Malpractice Insurance is $7,500 annually. However, there many types of doctors and countless insurance variables. Keep this in mind when searching for coverage. Surgeons pay between $30,000 and $50,000 a year." https://howmuch.net/costs/medical-malpractice-insurance https://howmuch.net/costs/medical-malpractice-insurance So for most doctors its about 2% of pre-tax salary
      - TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Thanks for this data point, I stand corrected!

throwaway5752 7y ago

That's not a fair point. People here talk about guilds and apprenticeships occasionally and that's what residencies are. You have a high, secure lifetime salary afterwards. It's a hard job, but it's just a career stage in an otherwise lucrative (although sometimes a difficult, stressful, and dangerous) career path.

seattle_spring 7y ago

Can you provide evidence to your claim? Not to mention that even if it were true, it would prevent or delay them from making $200k to $1m / year after residency. Hardly seems like a worthwhile trade-off.

kingkawn 7y ago

A quick search says the average us residency salary is $61,200 as of 2019, which is above the unemployment maximum even taking into account the additional $600 a week in pandemic funding.

skellera 7y ago
I think they’re going off a per hour basis. If a resident is working an 80 hour week, they aren’t getting paid much per hour.

yardie 7y ago

The pay for residents isn't bad compared to the rest of the country. But they do work crazy hours. $/hr they are making like $18/hour x 18 hours/day x 10 day rotation. They wouldn't get a pay bump by going on UI. They would get more sleep.