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> Through this lens, apologizing for bugs may seem innocuous. But it contributes to a bunch of cultural anti-patterns: > * If you’re a more senior engineer on

by twic 7y ago

> Through this lens, apologizing for bugs may seem innocuous. But it contributes to a bunch of cultural anti-patterns: > * If you’re a more senior engineer on your team, the effects of these anti-patterns are magnified: people see you apologizing for bugs, so they think that they should be striving to write bug-free code. Imagine writing this. Imagine actually sitting down at your keyboard and writing down that people should not be striving to write bug-free code.

flohofwoe 7y ago
Doh, of course no programmer intentionally writes buggy code, yet there isn't a single programmer in the world who doesn't write buggy code (and everybody who claims to write 'bug-free code' is either very inexperienced or a goddam liar). The point is to not have a "shame culture" for writing bugs, because they are normal part of the workflow. Instead focus on efficiently identifying and fixing bugs (efficient debugging is an important skill that's unfortunately often neglected). Otherwise you end up with people writing overly defensive code, and get into a situation like the Stalin-era airplane designers who each made their own parts just a bit stronger then necessary because they feared ending up in Gulag or against the wall if it was "their part" that broke. End result was planes that were so much more heavier than planned that they were essentially useless for the tasks they were designed for.
- twic 7y ago
  Of course we have to accept that bugs will be written. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't feel bad about writing bugs! Feeling bad is an excellent motivator to write fewer bugs! John Carmack put this better than i can [1]: > Left to themselves, most people have a tremendous ability to ignore their flaws, and it hampers their growth. A bit of shame is often a positive motivation. I am ashamed of a lot of code I wrote last year. I have reasons why it is the way it is, some of which are defensible, but some are just “WTF was I thinking?” If you don’t have nagging bits of guilt about your recent body of work, it might well be a benefit for someone to point out problems in terms that break through your defenses. [1] https://www.wanzafran.com/posts/2020/shame-and-code/ https://www.wanzafran.com/posts/2020/shame-and-code/
  - flohofwoe 7y ago
    I wouldn't call it "feeling bad", but "feeling responsible" for your own bugs. No finger pointing and blame games, just sit down and fix your own bugs, try to not run into the same problem next time, and inform your team mates about what the reason for the bug was and how the fix looks like. But there's no need for a "formal apology" to your team either. The user might deserve an apology by the PR department, but this shouldn't single out the actual developer who wrote the bug.
throwaway5752 7y ago
The article sounds much worse if replace "bug in code" with "made a mistake at work". Imagine if we're talking about a civil engineer, an electrician, or a doctor. I agree with you, it's outrageous. What an awful article. I get the point (you should have robust and multi-layered quality systems) but just the complete rejection of accountability is embarassing.
cryptonector 7y ago
And: > It reinforces the idea that any one person or piece of code can be blamed for a given failure. Short of malice, this is never the case. Never the case? Never?

by twic 7y ago

flohofwoe 7y ago

Doh, of course no programmer intentionally writes buggy code, yet there isn't a single programmer in the world who doesn't write buggy code (and everybody who claims to write 'bug-free code' is either very inexperienced or a goddam liar). The point is to not have a "shame culture" for writing bugs, because they are normal part of the workflow. Instead focus on efficiently identifying and fixing bugs (efficient debugging is an important skill that's unfortunately often neglected). Otherwise you end up with people writing overly defensive code, and get into a situation like the Stalin-era airplane designers who each made their own parts just a bit stronger then necessary because they feared ending up in Gulag or against the wall if it was "their part" that broke. End result was planes that were so much more heavier than planned that they were essentially useless for the tasks they were designed for.

twic 7y ago
Of course we have to accept that bugs will be written. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't feel bad about writing bugs! Feeling bad is an excellent motivator to write fewer bugs! John Carmack put this better than i can [1]: > Left to themselves, most people have a tremendous ability to ignore their flaws, and it hampers their growth. A bit of shame is often a positive motivation. I am ashamed of a lot of code I wrote last year. I have reasons why it is the way it is, some of which are defensible, but some are just “WTF was I thinking?” If you don’t have nagging bits of guilt about your recent body of work, it might well be a benefit for someone to point out problems in terms that break through your defenses. [1] https://www.wanzafran.com/posts/2020/shame-and-code/ https://www.wanzafran.com/posts/2020/shame-and-code/
- flohofwoe 7y ago
  I wouldn't call it "feeling bad", but "feeling responsible" for your own bugs. No finger pointing and blame games, just sit down and fix your own bugs, try to not run into the same problem next time, and inform your team mates about what the reason for the bug was and how the fix looks like. But there's no need for a "formal apology" to your team either. The user might deserve an apology by the PR department, but this shouldn't single out the actual developer who wrote the bug.

throwaway5752 7y ago

The article sounds much worse if replace "bug in code" with "made a mistake at work". Imagine if we're talking about a civil engineer, an electrician, or a doctor. I agree with you, it's outrageous. What an awful article. I get the point (you should have robust and multi-layered quality systems) but just the complete rejection of accountability is embarassing.

cryptonector 7y ago

And: > It reinforces the idea that any one person or piece of code can be blamed for a given failure. Short of malice, this is never the case. Never the case? Never?