5 ms·

Take a look at Japan as well, really easy to get in to work but money is not as good as NA. I don’t really know EU market

by tlear 6y ago

mettamage 6y ago
I'm a Dutchie, and I can't speak about the EU market as a whole, but as any European that travels around a bit, I have the following ranking in terms of lifestyle/pay: 1. Switzerland (90k or higher + mountains if you're willing to drive a bit) 2. Luxembourg (I just remember you get paid quite a bit) 3. Berlin (alright pay, low living costs, amazing city) 4. England + Scandinavia + The Netherlands (didn't look into Scandinavia enough but in most cases they're on par or a bit better than The Netherlands) Englang is on #4, because while the pay is better, society seems to be more screwed. University is more expensive, the welfare system sucks more (compared to most of the other countries in this list, Scandinavia being Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland). Take this with a grain of salt, do your own research of course. Countries that I wouldn't want to go to: 1. Eastern Europe 2. Southern Europe The pay is too low. The thing is: higher pay is always better, even when living costs are always, let's say 50% in any country. The more money you safe, the more you can utilize it for geo-arbitraging strategies later on in life.
- why_only_15 6y ago
  The issue with geo-arbitraging is that when you work somewhere for an extended period of time, you put resources into your life there. Retiring by leaving your home and friends etc. doesn't seem nearly as sweet.
  - mettamage 6y ago
    Fair point, I'd still argue it's better to send money back home, if one comes from a 3rd world country.
  - ido 6y ago
    You create a new home and make new friends (and eventually family if you moved somewhere single & got married along the way). I think you really underestimate how much easier life is in some places compared to others, even outside the extremes.
- oblio 6y ago
  I can't speak for the rest of the countries in the region, but in Romania if you work in IT for a decent company you pay 0 income tax if you graduated from a local CS department and only a 10% flat rate otherwise. A senior position at a good company in Bucharest will mean at least 3000 Euros net per month which means that you'll live like a king, since rent for a great apartment will be something like 500-600 Euros. The downside is lower development you notice regarding infrastructure, education levels, pollution, etc.
- burntoutfire 6y ago
  > Countries that I wouldn't want to go to: > 1. Eastern Europe 3-4k EUR net (after taxes) is pretty normal salary for senior enterprise dev in big cities in Poland. That's perhaps a bit less than in say Berlin (although I'm not too sure of that, given high taxes in Germany), but the costs of living are so much lower.
  - mettamage 6y ago
    Fair point! Thanks for pointing it out. My knowledge on Eastern Europe is pretty bad.
  - kubanczyk 6y ago
    How about not using Cold War era divisions. Kazakhstan is in Eastern Europe. It's 2000 km away from Poland. France is in Western Europe. It's 800 km away from Poland. With the EU money and regulations pouring in, the Central Europe begins to feel much more Western-ish and quite disconnected with Eastern Europe.
    - burntoutfire 6y ago
      It will take time till people start referring to Poland as Central Europe, Estonia as Northern Europe and ex. Slovenia as Southern Europe...
- benibela 6y ago
  The best thing would be to move to a country with low living costs and work remotely for a company from a high living costs country.
momofarm 6y ago
Please consult with someone worked in Japan before you actually go. Japanese company culture is very different to us/euro style, and if you can’t speak japanese, you will not be able to blend into their company culture. Also, Japan IT sector is notoriously messy, think again before you join them

Take a look at Japan as well, really easy to get in to work but money is not as good as NA. I don’t really know EU market

by tlear 6y ago

Take a look at Japan as well, really easy to get in to work but money is not as good as NA. I don’t really know EU market

mettamage 6y ago

I'm a Dutchie, and I can't speak about the EU market as a whole, but as any European that travels around a bit, I have the following ranking in terms of lifestyle/pay: 1. Switzerland (90k or higher + mountains if you're willing to drive a bit) 2. Luxembourg (I just remember you get paid quite a bit) 3. Berlin (alright pay, low living costs, amazing city) 4. England + Scandinavia + The Netherlands (didn't look into Scandinavia enough but in most cases they're on par or a bit better than The Netherlands) Englang is on #4, because while the pay is better, society seems to be more screwed. University is more expensive, the welfare system sucks more (compared to most of the other countries in this list, Scandinavia being Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland). Take this with a grain of salt, do your own research of course. Countries that I wouldn't want to go to: 1. Eastern Europe 2. Southern Europe The pay is too low. The thing is: higher pay is always better, even when living costs are always, let's say 50% in any country. The more money you safe, the more you can utilize it for geo-arbitraging strategies later on in life.

why_only_15 6y ago
The issue with geo-arbitraging is that when you work somewhere for an extended period of time, you put resources into your life there. Retiring by leaving your home and friends etc. doesn't seem nearly as sweet.
- mettamage 6y ago
  Fair point, I'd still argue it's better to send money back home, if one comes from a 3rd world country.
- ido 6y ago
  You create a new home and make new friends (and eventually family if you moved somewhere single & got married along the way). I think you really underestimate how much easier life is in some places compared to others, even outside the extremes.
oblio 6y ago
I can't speak for the rest of the countries in the region, but in Romania if you work in IT for a decent company you pay 0 income tax if you graduated from a local CS department and only a 10% flat rate otherwise. A senior position at a good company in Bucharest will mean at least 3000 Euros net per month which means that you'll live like a king, since rent for a great apartment will be something like 500-600 Euros. The downside is lower development you notice regarding infrastructure, education levels, pollution, etc.
burntoutfire 6y ago
> Countries that I wouldn't want to go to: > 1. Eastern Europe 3-4k EUR net (after taxes) is pretty normal salary for senior enterprise dev in big cities in Poland. That's perhaps a bit less than in say Berlin (although I'm not too sure of that, given high taxes in Germany), but the costs of living are so much lower.
- mettamage 6y ago
  Fair point! Thanks for pointing it out. My knowledge on Eastern Europe is pretty bad.
- kubanczyk 6y ago
  How about not using Cold War era divisions. Kazakhstan is in Eastern Europe. It's 2000 km away from Poland. France is in Western Europe. It's 800 km away from Poland. With the EU money and regulations pouring in, the Central Europe begins to feel much more Western-ish and quite disconnected with Eastern Europe.
  - burntoutfire 6y ago
    It will take time till people start referring to Poland as Central Europe, Estonia as Northern Europe and ex. Slovenia as Southern Europe...
benibela 6y ago
The best thing would be to move to a country with low living costs and work remotely for a company from a high living costs country.

momofarm 6y ago

Please consult with someone worked in Japan before you actually go. Japanese company culture is very different to us/euro style, and if you can’t speak japanese, you will not be able to blend into their company culture. Also, Japan IT sector is notoriously messy, think again before you join them