5 ms·

Something similar happened to me during this outbreak. Got my CS degree from a no-name university in a third world country a few years back, got a job in one o

Something similar happened to me during this outbreak. Got my CS degree from a no-name university in a third world country a few years back, got a job in one of those software sweatshops getting paid peanuts, moved to a new one an year later where I worked my ass off to learn things and generally be a good developer, but here too I was paid a pittance, mostly due to my education and previous job. I hated working here by the end and wanted to leave. Somehow I got an interview from a company in [COUNTRY] who were willing to sponsor my visa along with good pay. I studied hard for it (coming home from work at 10pm, preparing for interview until the late wee hours of the night) and cleared the interviews. Finally something good had happened to me, but just before I was scheduled to move for the new job, this outbreak just fucked everything over. The company still hasn't rescinded the offer, but I don't really have any high hopes, everyday I wake up in the morning expecting a rejection mail from them in my mailbox. Whats worse is that I had left my previous job since the joining of the new one was so close before all this happened, so here I am sitting jobless leeching on my family till god know when. Sorry for the rant, I just wanted to get this out. Edit: Any reason why this comment is dead?

tlear 6y ago
Hiring is still going on in most of North America. Hedge your bets look at other companies and interview. Preparation for one interview is preparation for lots of them
- bad_luck_tw 6y ago
  Unfortunately US work visa for people from my country is not so easy. Though I've been applying at companies in EU, the visa process is much simpler.
  - tlear 6y ago
    Take a look at Japan as well, really easy to get in to work but money is not as good as NA. I don’t really know EU market
    - mettamage 6y ago
      I'm a Dutchie, and I can't speak about the EU market as a whole, but as any European that travels around a bit, I have the following ranking in terms of lifestyle/pay: 1. Switzerland (90k or higher + mountains if you're willing to drive a bit) 2. Luxembourg (I just remember you get paid quite a bit) 3. Berlin (alright pay, low living costs, amazing city) 4. England + Scandinavia + The Netherlands (didn't look into Scandinavia enough but in most cases they're on par or a bit better than The Netherlands) Englang is on #4, because while the pay is better, society seems to be more screwed. University is more expensive, the welfare system sucks more (compared to most of the other countries in this list, Scandinavia being Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland). Take this with a grain of salt, do your own research of course. Countries that I wouldn't want to go to: 1. Eastern Europe 2. Southern Europe The pay is too low. The thing is: higher pay is always better, even when living costs are always, let's say 50% in any country. The more money you safe, the more you can utilize it for geo-arbitraging strategies later on in life.
      - why_only_15 6y ago
        The issue with geo-arbitraging is that when you work somewhere for an extended period of time, you put resources into your life there. Retiring by leaving your home and friends etc. doesn't seem nearly as sweet.
        mettamage 6y ago
        Fair point, I'd still argue it's better to send money back home, if one comes from a 3rd world country.
        ido 6y ago
        You create a new home and make new friends (and eventually family if you moved somewhere single & got married along the way). I think you really underestimate how much easier life is in some places compared to others, even outside the extremes.
      - oblio 6y ago
        I can't speak for the rest of the countries in the region, but in Romania if you work in IT for a decent company you pay 0 income tax if you graduated from a local CS department and only a 10% flat rate otherwise. A senior position at a good company in Bucharest will mean at least 3000 Euros net per month which means that you'll live like a king, since rent for a great apartment will be something like 500-600 Euros. The downside is lower development you notice regarding infrastructure, education levels, pollution, etc.
bryanrasmussen 6y ago
comment looks fine to me?
- bad_luck_tw 6y ago
  It was dead for about 10 minutes after I posted it, I think it tripped up some spam/troll filter for new accounts. It's fine now though, but I can't edit the original comment and remove the last line.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Yes, new accounts tend to have their comments appear as dead until they are vouched for. For constructive posts this usually happens quickly.
- dkersten 6y ago
  It can be brought back to life if people vouch for it, so I assume that’s what happened.
ChuckNorris89 6y ago
In wich country did you decide to move? Some have more troubles than others during this period depending on sector. For example, most companies in Germany/Europe working in the automotive sector froze hiring since nobody is buying cars anymore.
dakna 6y ago
You probably already know that, but sometimes it helps to hear it again: The world is a competitive place, and a lot of success factors are outside of your control. (timing, pre-existing resources, sheer luck) What you can control is exactly what you are already doing: Work really hard and make the best of what you have. Come up with a good long term plan and execute it. Do life decisions that help with that plan. This will make you more successful than your relative peer group and over time wash you into an upper percentile compared to others dealing with the same factors. Keep up the good work! It's a long game.
- libria 6y ago
  So, why is this encouraging and helpful message being downvoted into gray? I can only assume some salty graduates are lashing out. Don't do that to yourself, i.e. living bitter and angry. Engage with those you disagree with by conversing. Correct them or be corrected and learn.
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    I got to say I have given up worrying about why people are downvoting what I say, I do have a suspicion that I have a couple people who when they see my name automatically downvote - oh it's that guy again - although I don't think they search me out to downvote either. on edit: at any rate I upvoted it as you're right, seems an encouraging nice message.
    - sk5t 6y ago
      FWIW across ~10 years of HNing my sense is it's pretty hard to land on > 1 person's shitlist, and while it's unlikely you've garnered a coterie of haters, it is the iron law of HN that complaining about--or speculating about potential--downvotes attracts many downvotes.
- mettamage 6y ago
  Disclaimer: I don't know much about 3rd world countries other than my recent trip to Africa and talking to some locals there. In short I've learned: access to healthcare is completely and utterly fucked (this is why maximum age seems to be 40 in the villages that I went to), getting food is a struggle but doable if you know what you're doing (you just plant stuff somewhere and hope it doesn't get robbed), you'll have a mud house somewhere, you'll be living close with your family, you'll be relying a lot on your community and your community relies on you. My point of this entire comment is to say: be a bit careful with your words when you're from a 1st world country and the person you comment to lives in an entirely different context. --- My actual comment --- You seem to be based in the USA. This person is from a 3rd world country. Your advice looks like its written for an American, not someone who lives in a 3rd world country. For example, I can imagine that a lot of people don't think that the world is a competitive place but a criminal one. Why? Because there are a lot of mercantile practices going on. Your passport matters. There is no meritocracy in this world, only passports. Make the best of what you have in some cases can be translated to: try to fucking survive and I'm sorry that your relative passed away from malaria and that we had no money for medicine, and even if we did have money the infrastructure would be too broken to bring it fast enough. Sadly enough, that happens quite often. Technically, that's still the same as "make the best of what you have". But I can imagine that it can be perceived quite negatively, as some might see that there's some implied sarcasm there. > This will make you more successful than your relative peer group So instead of having an average age of 50, you'll get to be 60? More successful for sure. Yet, I can feel the unfairness to 1st worlders who get to be 80. > It's a long game. I don't think everyone perceives life to be a game. I know I do at times. But I also happen to know family members that almost die from hunger (rare thing to happen in The Netherlands but it does). I am sure that to them in those moments life is not a game. Because of that, I also believe that enough people who suffer from poverty or are threatened by it don't perceive life to be a game. --------- In closing: I think your comment was actually well meant. But since I see that you were downvoted I decided to take the time to explain how your comment seems to be missing the mark to me personally. I assume that other people have a similar enough interpretation of it. FYI I didn't downvote, as I think your comment was well meant.
bythckr 6y ago
Its not a competition, but I can do you one better. I have excellent jobs get away from me 3 times, days before I join. First was due to 2008 recession, company shutdown and I came to know when I went to join on day ONE, fresh after graduation. The last was now due to covid, the company abandon plans and even fired some their own staff. So, no scope of getting there. Scores of shitty jobs in shitty companies. Couple of failed startups and pending payments I doubt to recover. But unlike the last 2 times, now it didn't hurt much. May be i developed a tolerance. But its more of the fact that I accepted that many things are beyond my control. The fact it happens, shouldn't be taken personally by looking around and wondering why it "happened to me"? Shit happens, move on. Focus on self-development like reading more, watching & listening to informative things like documentaries or well-written programs instead of time-killers. Stick to a personal routine and keep a clear head. What is the fun if everyone has the same story? I story is unique to me, no claims of plagiarism. Your priority is to keep moving forward, whatever happens just think how to move forward. I just talking this time and studying. What else can I do? I do spend about an hour applying for jobs. Learn new skills, in job & in life. I have a small garden now that was setup during this covid times. I contribute fresh leafs to the meals at home. > so here I am sitting jobless leeching on my family till god know when. sitting jobless - that is you. Why sit simply, do something productive for you or the ones around you. Just washed some old unused vessels in the kitchen that my mom wanted to use now. leeching? as long was you not drinking or snorting drugs and actually trying to move forward its fine. Your time will come. You need to believe that to keep moving forward. Dont resent or feel jealous of the ones who seem to have things better than you. You can never compare yourself to any one around. The only person to compete with is yourself from yesterday.

tlear 6y ago

Hiring is still going on in most of North America. Hedge your bets look at other companies and interview. Preparation for one interview is preparation for lots of them

bad_luck_tw 6y ago
Unfortunately US work visa for people from my country is not so easy. Though I've been applying at companies in EU, the visa process is much simpler.
- tlear 6y ago
  Take a look at Japan as well, really easy to get in to work but money is not as good as NA. I don’t really know EU market
  - mettamage 6y ago
    I'm a Dutchie, and I can't speak about the EU market as a whole, but as any European that travels around a bit, I have the following ranking in terms of lifestyle/pay: 1. Switzerland (90k or higher + mountains if you're willing to drive a bit) 2. Luxembourg (I just remember you get paid quite a bit) 3. Berlin (alright pay, low living costs, amazing city) 4. England + Scandinavia + The Netherlands (didn't look into Scandinavia enough but in most cases they're on par or a bit better than The Netherlands) Englang is on #4, because while the pay is better, society seems to be more screwed. University is more expensive, the welfare system sucks more (compared to most of the other countries in this list, Scandinavia being Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland). Take this with a grain of salt, do your own research of course. Countries that I wouldn't want to go to: 1. Eastern Europe 2. Southern Europe The pay is too low. The thing is: higher pay is always better, even when living costs are always, let's say 50% in any country. The more money you safe, the more you can utilize it for geo-arbitraging strategies later on in life.
    - why_only_15 6y ago
      The issue with geo-arbitraging is that when you work somewhere for an extended period of time, you put resources into your life there. Retiring by leaving your home and friends etc. doesn't seem nearly as sweet.
      - mettamage 6y ago
        Fair point, I'd still argue it's better to send money back home, if one comes from a 3rd world country.
      - ido 6y ago
        You create a new home and make new friends (and eventually family if you moved somewhere single & got married along the way). I think you really underestimate how much easier life is in some places compared to others, even outside the extremes.
    - oblio 6y ago
      I can't speak for the rest of the countries in the region, but in Romania if you work in IT for a decent company you pay 0 income tax if you graduated from a local CS department and only a 10% flat rate otherwise. A senior position at a good company in Bucharest will mean at least 3000 Euros net per month which means that you'll live like a king, since rent for a great apartment will be something like 500-600 Euros. The downside is lower development you notice regarding infrastructure, education levels, pollution, etc.

bryanrasmussen 6y ago

comment looks fine to me?

bad_luck_tw 6y ago
It was dead for about 10 minutes after I posted it, I think it tripped up some spam/troll filter for new accounts. It's fine now though, but I can't edit the original comment and remove the last line.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Yes, new accounts tend to have their comments appear as dead until they are vouched for. For constructive posts this usually happens quickly.
dkersten 6y ago
It can be brought back to life if people vouch for it, so I assume that’s what happened.

ChuckNorris89 6y ago

In wich country did you decide to move? Some have more troubles than others during this period depending on sector. For example, most companies in Germany/Europe working in the automotive sector froze hiring since nobody is buying cars anymore.

dakna 6y ago

You probably already know that, but sometimes it helps to hear it again: The world is a competitive place, and a lot of success factors are outside of your control. (timing, pre-existing resources, sheer luck) What you can control is exactly what you are already doing: Work really hard and make the best of what you have. Come up with a good long term plan and execute it. Do life decisions that help with that plan. This will make you more successful than your relative peer group and over time wash you into an upper percentile compared to others dealing with the same factors. Keep up the good work! It's a long game.

libria 6y ago
So, why is this encouraging and helpful message being downvoted into gray? I can only assume some salty graduates are lashing out. Don't do that to yourself, i.e. living bitter and angry. Engage with those you disagree with by conversing. Correct them or be corrected and learn.
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  I got to say I have given up worrying about why people are downvoting what I say, I do have a suspicion that I have a couple people who when they see my name automatically downvote - oh it's that guy again - although I don't think they search me out to downvote either. on edit: at any rate I upvoted it as you're right, seems an encouraging nice message.
  - sk5t 6y ago
    FWIW across ~10 years of HNing my sense is it's pretty hard to land on > 1 person's shitlist, and while it's unlikely you've garnered a coterie of haters, it is the iron law of HN that complaining about--or speculating about potential--downvotes attracts many downvotes.
mettamage 6y ago
Disclaimer: I don't know much about 3rd world countries other than my recent trip to Africa and talking to some locals there. In short I've learned: access to healthcare is completely and utterly fucked (this is why maximum age seems to be 40 in the villages that I went to), getting food is a struggle but doable if you know what you're doing (you just plant stuff somewhere and hope it doesn't get robbed), you'll have a mud house somewhere, you'll be living close with your family, you'll be relying a lot on your community and your community relies on you. My point of this entire comment is to say: be a bit careful with your words when you're from a 1st world country and the person you comment to lives in an entirely different context. --- My actual comment --- You seem to be based in the USA. This person is from a 3rd world country. Your advice looks like its written for an American, not someone who lives in a 3rd world country. For example, I can imagine that a lot of people don't think that the world is a competitive place but a criminal one. Why? Because there are a lot of mercantile practices going on. Your passport matters. There is no meritocracy in this world, only passports. Make the best of what you have in some cases can be translated to: try to fucking survive and I'm sorry that your relative passed away from malaria and that we had no money for medicine, and even if we did have money the infrastructure would be too broken to bring it fast enough. Sadly enough, that happens quite often. Technically, that's still the same as "make the best of what you have". But I can imagine that it can be perceived quite negatively, as some might see that there's some implied sarcasm there. > This will make you more successful than your relative peer group So instead of having an average age of 50, you'll get to be 60? More successful for sure. Yet, I can feel the unfairness to 1st worlders who get to be 80. > It's a long game. I don't think everyone perceives life to be a game. I know I do at times. But I also happen to know family members that almost die from hunger (rare thing to happen in The Netherlands but it does). I am sure that to them in those moments life is not a game. Because of that, I also believe that enough people who suffer from poverty or are threatened by it don't perceive life to be a game. --------- In closing: I think your comment was actually well meant. But since I see that you were downvoted I decided to take the time to explain how your comment seems to be missing the mark to me personally. I assume that other people have a similar enough interpretation of it. FYI I didn't downvote, as I think your comment was well meant.

bythckr 6y ago

Its not a competition, but I can do you one better. I have excellent jobs get away from me 3 times, days before I join. First was due to 2008 recession, company shutdown and I came to know when I went to join on day ONE, fresh after graduation. The last was now due to covid, the company abandon plans and even fired some their own staff. So, no scope of getting there. Scores of shitty jobs in shitty companies. Couple of failed startups and pending payments I doubt to recover. But unlike the last 2 times, now it didn't hurt much. May be i developed a tolerance. But its more of the fact that I accepted that many things are beyond my control. The fact it happens, shouldn't be taken personally by looking around and wondering why it "happened to me"? Shit happens, move on. Focus on self-development like reading more, watching & listening to informative things like documentaries or well-written programs instead of time-killers. Stick to a personal routine and keep a clear head. What is the fun if everyone has the same story? I story is unique to me, no claims of plagiarism. Your priority is to keep moving forward, whatever happens just think how to move forward. I just talking this time and studying. What else can I do? I do spend about an hour applying for jobs. Learn new skills, in job & in life. I have a small garden now that was setup during this covid times. I contribute fresh leafs to the meals at home. > so here I am sitting jobless leeching on my family till god know when. sitting jobless - that is you. Why sit simply, do something productive for you or the ones around you. Just washed some old unused vessels in the kitchen that my mom wanted to use now. leeching? as long was you not drinking or snorting drugs and actually trying to move forward its fine. Your time will come. You need to believe that to keep moving forward. Dont resent or feel jealous of the ones who seem to have things better than you. You can never compare yourself to any one around. The only person to compete with is yourself from yesterday.