4 ms·

Kids are not luck though, people have all the power to decide not to have kids until their finances are better.

by username90 7y ago

OkGoDoIt 7y ago
Sounds good until you’re both in your mid 30s and realizing that it’s now or never.
- username90 7y ago
  I said how to do it without being lucky, not how to do it when you are no longer in your 20's.
Balgair 7y ago
Through true, that's a bit of a coarse statement. Should children wreck your finances? A lot of countries are spending a lot of money to reverse that sentiment right now. Yes, they are currently expensive, but blaming people for having children isn't going to fix anything. What about health aspects? One should never overestimate their fertility. Rates of birth defects rise as humans age (not just women, men too). Complications at birth also rise. Older grandparents have less time to enjoy their progeny. Older parents have health issues that prevent them from spending as much time with new grandchildren. Each family chooses when it is right for them to add a new member. Finances play into that, of course, but they should not dominate the decision like they do today. Top Tier economies are seeing the results of this myopia. Many European countries are schilling out big bucks to bump their birthrates and help with these financial concerns. Places like Switerland have had their fertility rates under replacement since the 1970's. Data is a bit wonky, but it seems these policies have helped the problem from a continued backslide, though not ended it.
- robertlagrant 7y ago
  > A lot of countries are spending a lot of money to reverse that sentiment right now. Yes, they are currently expensive, but blaming people for having children isn't going to fix anything. I think it's more about why people blame the government or society for the economic ramifications of this choice.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Which people? Environmentalist maybe. But those worrying about failing retirement pension system or the amount of migrant labor probably do realize both are caused by low population growth in their country.
    - Balgair 7y ago
      > But those worrying about failing retirement pension system or the amount of migrant labor probably do realize both are caused by low population growth in their country. The more years that pass, the less I am certain that many people realize anything beyond their front bumper.
dkersten 7y ago
Potentially very unpopular opinion, but to add to this, I think it’s irresponsible and unfair to the children if you choose to have have kids before your finances are in order. And selfish to put your desires above the wellbeing of the potential child’s.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  We're talking in the thread about bad luck. It's entirely possible - and common - to have finances in order, decide to have children, and then experience sudden events causing financial hardships. Also, we're in a subthread of "saving lots o'moneys by working for big tech", so this applies also to people wanting to improve your situation. I personally didn't realize how bad the calculus of chasing after companies in tech hubs looks until I started doing costs-of-living calculations while evaluating job offers with relocation. I ended up doubling down on remote, because even a moderately shit tech job (even a in-office one where I live) would leave us with more savings on a single income than us relocating to a big tech hub and living on two incomes (one non-tech).
  - dkersten 7y ago
    I didn’t say I had anything against anybody who has kids and falls on hard times. I understand that makes my comment rather off topic in this thread. I do know a lot of people who definitely did not have their finances in order and decided to have children anyway. The children are the ones who suffer most in these cases! This is super irresponsible and selfish. Hell, I once knew a couple who literally said they might have a third child because it would be easier with the extra child support money...
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      Here I agree with you in principle - deciding to have a child while not being able to financially support it, and just hoping for the best, is extremely irresponsible and likely to permanently scar a new human being. That said, before judging a struggling family, there are also some other things to consider: - Pregnancies happen by accident. It's both easier and harder to conceive a child than people think. It can and does happen by accident even with multiple methods of birth control applied, and at the same time a couple can try to have a kid and not succeed for years (or at all). - Your job can disappear suddenly and through no fault of your own. I had this situation in the past, where my coworkers and I didn't know that there was a hostile takeover of the company happening for almost a year before it run out of money and stopped paying us. - Random events (family problems, illness, or a pandemic shutting down the global economy) can suddenly break your finances while a child is underway. - People miscalculate. - The drive to procreate is, in general, one of the strongest forces in all living organisms, and thus very hard to control - especially with abstract considerations like numbers on the screen symbolizing your chances of survival. > Hell, I once knew a couple who literally said they might have a third child because it would be easier with the extra child support money... Can't speak about that particular couple, but in general, that's economic reality. I've seen such things too (hell, my wife and I sometimes joke that we should try for two or for four, because there's little difference between three and four kids, and having a fourth gives guaranteed retirement from the government). Sometimes benefits are set up this way on purpose, by countries that want to improve their population growth.

Kids are not luck though, people have all the power to decide not to have kids until their finances are better.

OkGoDoIt 7y ago

Sounds good until you’re both in your mid 30s and realizing that it’s now or never.

username90 7y ago
I said how to do it without being lucky, not how to do it when you are no longer in your 20's.

Balgair 7y ago

Through true, that's a bit of a coarse statement. Should children wreck your finances? A lot of countries are spending a lot of money to reverse that sentiment right now. Yes, they are currently expensive, but blaming people for having children isn't going to fix anything. What about health aspects? One should never overestimate their fertility. Rates of birth defects rise as humans age (not just women, men too). Complications at birth also rise. Older grandparents have less time to enjoy their progeny. Older parents have health issues that prevent them from spending as much time with new grandchildren. Each family chooses when it is right for them to add a new member. Finances play into that, of course, but they should not dominate the decision like they do today. Top Tier economies are seeing the results of this myopia. Many European countries are schilling out big bucks to bump their birthrates and help with these financial concerns. Places like Switerland have had their fertility rates under replacement since the 1970's. Data is a bit wonky, but it seems these policies have helped the problem from a continued backslide, though not ended it.

robertlagrant 7y ago
> A lot of countries are spending a lot of money to reverse that sentiment right now. Yes, they are currently expensive, but blaming people for having children isn't going to fix anything. I think it's more about why people blame the government or society for the economic ramifications of this choice.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Which people? Environmentalist maybe. But those worrying about failing retirement pension system or the amount of migrant labor probably do realize both are caused by low population growth in their country.
  - Balgair 7y ago
    > But those worrying about failing retirement pension system or the amount of migrant labor probably do realize both are caused by low population growth in their country. The more years that pass, the less I am certain that many people realize anything beyond their front bumper.

dkersten 7y ago

Potentially very unpopular opinion, but to add to this, I think it’s irresponsible and unfair to the children if you choose to have have kids before your finances are in order. And selfish to put your desires above the wellbeing of the potential child’s.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
We're talking in the thread about bad luck. It's entirely possible - and common - to have finances in order, decide to have children, and then experience sudden events causing financial hardships. Also, we're in a subthread of "saving lots o'moneys by working for big tech", so this applies also to people wanting to improve your situation. I personally didn't realize how bad the calculus of chasing after companies in tech hubs looks until I started doing costs-of-living calculations while evaluating job offers with relocation. I ended up doubling down on remote, because even a moderately shit tech job (even a in-office one where I live) would leave us with more savings on a single income than us relocating to a big tech hub and living on two incomes (one non-tech).
- dkersten 7y ago
  I didn’t say I had anything against anybody who has kids and falls on hard times. I understand that makes my comment rather off topic in this thread. I do know a lot of people who definitely did not have their finances in order and decided to have children anyway. The children are the ones who suffer most in these cases! This is super irresponsible and selfish. Hell, I once knew a couple who literally said they might have a third child because it would be easier with the extra child support money...
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Here I agree with you in principle - deciding to have a child while not being able to financially support it, and just hoping for the best, is extremely irresponsible and likely to permanently scar a new human being. That said, before judging a struggling family, there are also some other things to consider: - Pregnancies happen by accident. It's both easier and harder to conceive a child than people think. It can and does happen by accident even with multiple methods of birth control applied, and at the same time a couple can try to have a kid and not succeed for years (or at all). - Your job can disappear suddenly and through no fault of your own. I had this situation in the past, where my coworkers and I didn't know that there was a hostile takeover of the company happening for almost a year before it run out of money and stopped paying us. - Random events (family problems, illness, or a pandemic shutting down the global economy) can suddenly break your finances while a child is underway. - People miscalculate. - The drive to procreate is, in general, one of the strongest forces in all living organisms, and thus very hard to control - especially with abstract considerations like numbers on the screen symbolizing your chances of survival. > Hell, I once knew a couple who literally said they might have a third child because it would be easier with the extra child support money... Can't speak about that particular couple, but in general, that's economic reality. I've seen such things too (hell, my wife and I sometimes joke that we should try for two or for four, because there's little difference between three and four kids, and having a fourth gives guaranteed retirement from the government). Sometimes benefits are set up this way on purpose, by countries that want to improve their population growth.