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One of the youtube series I watch normally features pork ribs. Like, the shrinkwrapped package you get from the grocery store. Well that video the creator could

One of the youtube series I watch normally features pork ribs. Like, the shrinkwrapped package you get from the grocery store. Well that video the creator couldn't get pork ribs because of coronavirus and so had used beef ribs instead - and couldn't even plainly say the reason why. Instead he had to hold up a bottle of corona beer and say "Well, it's due to beer, if you get my drift." Is Youtube actually in the right here? The guy just wanted to say he couldn't find pork ribs. He wasn't telling anyone to inject bleach or chug quinine. That isn't just clamping down on the conspiracy nutters. This has repeatedly become an issue in multiple videos from videogame commentary to cooking shows I watch. Youtube and other large corporates often see themselves as leading the dumb cattle that is the general population and frankly it's outright insulting and their handling of this situation is abysmal. But also it's going to get worse. The more Youtube can get away with these things, the more they'll do them. Don't be surprised when this extends even more to protected political speech (Israel BDS, free HK, Taiwanese independence, etc) because it's happened before and it will happen again.

monkpit 7y ago
> Is Youtube actually in the right here? Are you saying he got banned for this? I feel like you left something out in your comment.
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  One of the things that's important when we discuss any kind of censorship and freedom of speech is what we call "Chilling Effects". If you know taking a political position is going to result in your family being arrested and put in prison, then your speech is being curbed even without being punished and it's one of the insidious wrongs of censorship. When a grown man who was in the marines for several years is afraid he's going to lose his youtube channel talking about why he can't find pork ribs, that's a chilling effect. When a multi-million dollar videogame streamer is afraid he's going to be demonetized if he talks about why he's filming from home instead of his studio, that's a chilling effect. The goal of a good censor is not to enforce censorship. It's to get the people to enforce it themselves.
  - intopieces 7y ago
    Has anyone been demonetized for simply mentioning Coronavirus or is this just their precaution? Now the conversation is drifting away from the original point so I want to be sure
    - pleddy 7y ago
      "masks"
      - intopieces 7y ago
        What does this comment mean?
        pleddy 7y ago
        The word "masks" got my friend's online ads shutdown temporarily.
    - CapricornNoble 7y ago
      Tim Pool has talked about it regularly, how if independent Youtubers even speak the word their video will be instantly demonetized, but bigger YT channels (those with millions of subs) as well as mainstream media outlets can use the term with no ill effects. He's such a prolific content creator across three channels I can't single out an exact video from the past ~90 days of material for you though. https://www.reddit.com/r/SamandTolki/comments/foem3m/h3h3_uploads_first_video_in_9_months_to_cash_in/flflmuc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x https://www.reddit.com/r/SamandTolki/comments/foem3m/h3h3_up... https://youtu.be/C3j4TEUeDbw https://youtu.be/C3j4TEUeDbw Here's a related article: https://onezero.medium.com/youtubes-independent-creators-are-mad-that-they-can-t-say-coronavirus-e7b16ae844fa https://onezero.medium.com/youtubes-independent-creators-are...
cmeacham98 7y ago
I'm not arguing that youtube is doing a good job, or that youtube's brand of corona-related censorship is in any way making a positive impact. I'm arguing against the parent comment that essentially makes the argument that _all forms_ of censorship/moderation are bad and inherently lead to oppression. If you instead want to argue that youtube's specific policies regarding coronavirus are bad/harmful/etc, go ahead, I won't stop you.
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  Hn is a moderated community, and it's value partially comes from it's moderation. It's restricted to a set of topics, and if things get too out of hand whether it's a personal attack or just insanity, the comment is going to get removed. Except you can view the dead comments. You can still see the removed stories. You have to opt-in to that, but it's just a checkbox in your profile. HN is moderated, but there is no censorship. The issue with censorship is that it has to grow. You can't defend taking down say, videos about the Israel BDS movement, and not also take down videos about Free HK. Either the platform openly admits that it's biased or it has to keep growing what can't be discussed and inevitably that's going to start including content that everyone feels shouldn't be censored.
  - cmeacham98 7y ago
    This is the same with your example though? Anyone can upload a video talking about the coronavirus, they just might not receive money for it (they'll be demonetized). Youtube only seems to be taking an active 'censorship' approach for comments spreading bad information about the virus. Whether or not "against WHO advice" is a good metric for this is debatable, but the goal seems worthwhile. > The issue with censorship is that it has to grow. You can't defend taking down say, videos about the Israel BDS movement, and not also take down videos about Free HK. I fail to see how this property, if it exists, is any less present in a "moderated but without explicit censhorship" system.
    - vorpalhex 7y ago
      Demonetization is a form of censorship when Youtube is your paycheck. If your employer threatened to not pay you because you took a political position that would be abhorrent and oppressive treatment. Youtube is not a direct employee and it's more of a business partner, but it's wielding it's power to control speech - which is oppressive.
elliekelly 7y ago
Can you link a few of the videos you referenced?
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  Drop me an email and I'll send you links with a timecode since they are pretty off topic for HN.

monkpit 7y ago

> Is Youtube actually in the right here? Are you saying he got banned for this? I feel like you left something out in your comment.

vorpalhex 7y ago
One of the things that's important when we discuss any kind of censorship and freedom of speech is what we call "Chilling Effects". If you know taking a political position is going to result in your family being arrested and put in prison, then your speech is being curbed even without being punished and it's one of the insidious wrongs of censorship. When a grown man who was in the marines for several years is afraid he's going to lose his youtube channel talking about why he can't find pork ribs, that's a chilling effect. When a multi-million dollar videogame streamer is afraid he's going to be demonetized if he talks about why he's filming from home instead of his studio, that's a chilling effect. The goal of a good censor is not to enforce censorship. It's to get the people to enforce it themselves.
- intopieces 7y ago
  Has anyone been demonetized for simply mentioning Coronavirus or is this just their precaution? Now the conversation is drifting away from the original point so I want to be sure
  - pleddy 7y ago
    "masks"
    - intopieces 7y ago
      What does this comment mean?
      - pleddy 7y ago
        The word "masks" got my friend's online ads shutdown temporarily.
  - CapricornNoble 7y ago
    Tim Pool has talked about it regularly, how if independent Youtubers even speak the word their video will be instantly demonetized, but bigger YT channels (those with millions of subs) as well as mainstream media outlets can use the term with no ill effects. He's such a prolific content creator across three channels I can't single out an exact video from the past ~90 days of material for you though. https://www.reddit.com/r/SamandTolki/comments/foem3m/h3h3_uploads_first_video_in_9_months_to_cash_in/flflmuc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x https://www.reddit.com/r/SamandTolki/comments/foem3m/h3h3_up... https://youtu.be/C3j4TEUeDbw https://youtu.be/C3j4TEUeDbw Here's a related article: https://onezero.medium.com/youtubes-independent-creators-are-mad-that-they-can-t-say-coronavirus-e7b16ae844fa https://onezero.medium.com/youtubes-independent-creators-are...

cmeacham98 7y ago

I'm not arguing that youtube is doing a good job, or that youtube's brand of corona-related censorship is in any way making a positive impact. I'm arguing against the parent comment that essentially makes the argument that _all forms_ of censorship/moderation are bad and inherently lead to oppression. If you instead want to argue that youtube's specific policies regarding coronavirus are bad/harmful/etc, go ahead, I won't stop you.

vorpalhex 7y ago
Hn is a moderated community, and it's value partially comes from it's moderation. It's restricted to a set of topics, and if things get too out of hand whether it's a personal attack or just insanity, the comment is going to get removed. Except you can view the dead comments. You can still see the removed stories. You have to opt-in to that, but it's just a checkbox in your profile. HN is moderated, but there is no censorship. The issue with censorship is that it has to grow. You can't defend taking down say, videos about the Israel BDS movement, and not also take down videos about Free HK. Either the platform openly admits that it's biased or it has to keep growing what can't be discussed and inevitably that's going to start including content that everyone feels shouldn't be censored.
- cmeacham98 7y ago
  This is the same with your example though? Anyone can upload a video talking about the coronavirus, they just might not receive money for it (they'll be demonetized). Youtube only seems to be taking an active 'censorship' approach for comments spreading bad information about the virus. Whether or not "against WHO advice" is a good metric for this is debatable, but the goal seems worthwhile. > The issue with censorship is that it has to grow. You can't defend taking down say, videos about the Israel BDS movement, and not also take down videos about Free HK. I fail to see how this property, if it exists, is any less present in a "moderated but without explicit censhorship" system.
  - vorpalhex 7y ago
    Demonetization is a form of censorship when Youtube is your paycheck. If your employer threatened to not pay you because you took a political position that would be abhorrent and oppressive treatment. Youtube is not a direct employee and it's more of a business partner, but it's wielding it's power to control speech - which is oppressive.

elliekelly 7y ago

Can you link a few of the videos you referenced?

vorpalhex 7y ago
Drop me an email and I'll send you links with a timecode since they are pretty off topic for HN.