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Real world example: Rock Climbing There are two basic approaches to route climbing with ropes: "Traditional Climbing" with removable gear placed as the rock a

Real world example: Rock Climbing There are two basic approaches to route climbing with ropes: "Traditional Climbing" with removable gear placed as the rock allows and the potential for injury if you were to fall, and "Sport Climbing", with closely spaced fixed gear, where falling is a matter of course. "Trad" climbers will often go years, decades, entire careers without ever falling off the rock. "Sport" climbers will average around a dozen good falls on a typical day out. So there you have two observable groups, one where failure is not an option, the other where failure is commonplace. Given the difference in mindset, it's not surprising that you'll often see 14 year old kids with one year of experience in a world where falling is just part of the game out-climbing men with 20 years experience who've never truly exceeded their limits.

kahawe 16y ago
Unfair comparison - falling as a 14 year old is a whole different thing than falling at age 30 or 40, not just from body size and weight.
- jasonkester 16y ago
  Fair comparison. 40 year climbers with 5 years experience and a willingness to push themselves to failure routinely climb harder than 40 year old climbers with 25 years experience gained climbing without falling. Falling onto a dynamic rope is not in any way traumatic, even to an old guy like myself. The equipment really is that good. A 10 foot lead fall into space is nowhere near as demanding on the body as, say, a lay-up in Basketball.
  - kahawe 16y ago
    Don't you first fall into the rope and then slam against the mountain side? Oh, and, out of curiosity - how old are you, how long have you been climbing and what were your failures and worst injuries? I'm asking because I am turning 30 and feel like my chance for a young and silly, careless life is slowly over.. no chance to even think about learning climbing or snowboarding or any other exciting sports. On top of that I am an aspiring musician to I am kinda worried about my fingers and arms.
    - metachris 16y ago
      It's never too late to start climbing! The goal doesn't need to be to climb extremely hard routes, but rather the ones you enjoy. Rock climbing is a great way to get your head free (being a developer myself, I find myself thinking about project related topics all the time, and climbing and sex are the best ways for me to get my head free). Re: crashing against the wall: that usually does not happen because you fall mostly downward and only a small bit towards the wall, which you can absorb with your feet.
    - jasonkester 16y ago
      Two of the strongest climbers I know started in their late 30s. I'm 39, and I suspect my hardest routes are still ahead of me. You'll get out of it what you put in, regardless of when you start. I'd recommend taking off from work tonight and heading straight for the nearest climbing gym to give it a shot. Oh, and one nice thing about climbing is that the better you get at it the less it hurts to fall. So sure if you fell off a beginner route with lots of ledges to hit it would certainly hurt. Fortunately you don't do that too often. Once you get past the beginner stage, routes tend to get steeper and less featured. As in, less stuff to run into when you come off. I spent the better part of October pitching off routes on the Greek island of Kalymnos and never hit anything but air. The routes there overhang up to 45 degrees, so there's simply not anything to hit, and therefore hardly any real consequence to a fall.
nicpottier 16y ago
I'm not sure I totally agree with this, but I'll go with it, and expand upon it even more. Those climbers who primarily boulder, that's climbing without a rope, fairly close to the ground, are better still. Because they work on insanely difficult problems and fall all the time.
- reemrevnivek 16y ago
  You're missing one of the points of the article: When you fail, it has to be cheap (i.e, a rope attached so you fall a few feet). Bouldering and falling all the time does not mean that you're failing cheaply. Falling hurts!
  - jasonkester 16y ago
    No, he's right. Boulder falls are nearly always soft, and certainly aren't painful. Usually they're only a foot or so onto a pad. It's actually pretty rare to come off from high up and miss a pad. Granted, you can still break things. But it still works out safer on a per-hour basis than Volleyball.

kahawe 16y ago

Unfair comparison - falling as a 14 year old is a whole different thing than falling at age 30 or 40, not just from body size and weight.

jasonkester 16y ago
Fair comparison. 40 year climbers with 5 years experience and a willingness to push themselves to failure routinely climb harder than 40 year old climbers with 25 years experience gained climbing without falling. Falling onto a dynamic rope is not in any way traumatic, even to an old guy like myself. The equipment really is that good. A 10 foot lead fall into space is nowhere near as demanding on the body as, say, a lay-up in Basketball.
- kahawe 16y ago
  Don't you first fall into the rope and then slam against the mountain side? Oh, and, out of curiosity - how old are you, how long have you been climbing and what were your failures and worst injuries? I'm asking because I am turning 30 and feel like my chance for a young and silly, careless life is slowly over.. no chance to even think about learning climbing or snowboarding or any other exciting sports. On top of that I am an aspiring musician to I am kinda worried about my fingers and arms.
  - metachris 16y ago
    It's never too late to start climbing! The goal doesn't need to be to climb extremely hard routes, but rather the ones you enjoy. Rock climbing is a great way to get your head free (being a developer myself, I find myself thinking about project related topics all the time, and climbing and sex are the best ways for me to get my head free). Re: crashing against the wall: that usually does not happen because you fall mostly downward and only a small bit towards the wall, which you can absorb with your feet.
  - jasonkester 16y ago
    Two of the strongest climbers I know started in their late 30s. I'm 39, and I suspect my hardest routes are still ahead of me. You'll get out of it what you put in, regardless of when you start. I'd recommend taking off from work tonight and heading straight for the nearest climbing gym to give it a shot. Oh, and one nice thing about climbing is that the better you get at it the less it hurts to fall. So sure if you fell off a beginner route with lots of ledges to hit it would certainly hurt. Fortunately you don't do that too often. Once you get past the beginner stage, routes tend to get steeper and less featured. As in, less stuff to run into when you come off. I spent the better part of October pitching off routes on the Greek island of Kalymnos and never hit anything but air. The routes there overhang up to 45 degrees, so there's simply not anything to hit, and therefore hardly any real consequence to a fall.

nicpottier 16y ago

I'm not sure I totally agree with this, but I'll go with it, and expand upon it even more. Those climbers who primarily boulder, that's climbing without a rope, fairly close to the ground, are better still. Because they work on insanely difficult problems and fall all the time.

reemrevnivek 16y ago
You're missing one of the points of the article: When you fail, it has to be cheap (i.e, a rope attached so you fall a few feet). Bouldering and falling all the time does not mean that you're failing cheaply. Falling hurts!
- jasonkester 16y ago
  No, he's right. Boulder falls are nearly always soft, and certainly aren't painful. Usually they're only a foot or so onto a pad. It's actually pretty rare to come off from high up and miss a pad. Granted, you can still break things. But it still works out safer on a per-hour basis than Volleyball.