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The point made in here about how your company is not your family cannot be emphasized enough. Corporate culture, and especially tech startup culture, likes to m

The point made in here about how your company is not your family cannot be emphasized enough. Corporate culture, and especially tech startup culture, likes to make you believe that we're all family and best friends and love each other. That attitude stays up right until the day they lay you off without warning. It's great to work with great people that you enjoy being around, and we should treat each other all with human dignity and respect, and with a bit of fun. But your boss is not, and never will be, your friend.

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
But I think there can also be too much negativity around "the company is not a family". At this point, with 3 major crashes in the past 20 years, I feel like only bad companies say the company is a family. Good companies say, and act like, the company is a team. People can work hard together, they can be friends, but they are clear that the reason for the team is to accomplish a goal, and if the structure of the team needs to be changed to accomplish that goal, people will be cut. This team mentality can provide true clarity of purpose, and can eliminate any sense of bitterness if things don't work out. When people are cut from a high caliber sports team they may be immensely disappointed, but if treated fairly they understand it. The family mentality almost always results in bitterness, because what kind of family kicks out their members when things get slightly tough?
- pmiller2 7y ago
  Exactly. If a company says "we're a family," then, either they are (a family business), or they're lying. I always say "you don't fire your brother," when people say something like this.
Hokusai 7y ago
> But your boss is not, and never will be, your friend. I agree with the sentiment. I am still friends with people that were my direct reports many years ago. But, when I was their manager, I treat them fairly like any other employee. That they were my friends meant that we will hang after work hours. But, as I manager I could not be their friends in work hours. Favoritism will have been extremely unfair for the rest of employees, that still were very good people. I also have friends that have been my managers. And, in the job I expected to be treated equally than the rest of employees. I guess that we are still friends because we think in a similar way about justice and work ethics. With teammates has been different. I have been part of awesome teams that we have been friends while working together to later on drift apart as our interests outside the job does not match (quite usually people with children that have limited time to hang out). The opposite of that are managers that "feel betrayed" when you leave a company that has been mistreating you, or tell you that they expect loyalty to the company that is not reciprocal. They are the "paterfamilias" of a dysfunctional and abusive family. There is nothing worse that a manager that expects to be treated as a friend, with loyalty and sacrifice but sees you as just a number.
throwaway5752 7y ago
Your boss can absolutely be your friend. You should be a good friend back and recognize you have two relationships, and if they are a good person with integrity they won't make professional actions on the basis of personal relationships. That's just basic professionalism. I've been friendly with many of my bosses during and after the term of employment I've worked for them. I would never, ever have expected any favoritism on then basis of that friendship from them, including laying me off if necessary and distributing raises and promotions purely based on merit with no regards to our friendship. Any expectations otherwise, to me, would mean I was being the bad friend. I'd have the exact same expectations of family if I worked for them.
- pmiller2 7y ago
  There's a bit difference between having a "friendly" relationship and being a friend.
  - throwaway5752 7y ago
    I completely agree. I still have zero expectations in the professional context. If I couldn't handle that I would quit rather than risk the friendship.
ubu7737 7y ago
A beloved co-worker and the best engineer on my team suddenly had to leave 2 months ago because his H1B renewal was denied. He asked the company HR for help and they sent him home immediately. Tears in his eyes he left us on a Thursday, and we didn't know what to say or how to feel. This is just how it goes. No matter how much we wanted him to stay, there was nothing to be done about it at our level.

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago

But I think there can also be too much negativity around "the company is not a family". At this point, with 3 major crashes in the past 20 years, I feel like only bad companies say the company is a family. Good companies say, and act like, the company is a team. People can work hard together, they can be friends, but they are clear that the reason for the team is to accomplish a goal, and if the structure of the team needs to be changed to accomplish that goal, people will be cut. This team mentality can provide true clarity of purpose, and can eliminate any sense of bitterness if things don't work out. When people are cut from a high caliber sports team they may be immensely disappointed, but if treated fairly they understand it. The family mentality almost always results in bitterness, because what kind of family kicks out their members when things get slightly tough?

pmiller2 7y ago
Exactly. If a company says "we're a family," then, either they are (a family business), or they're lying. I always say "you don't fire your brother," when people say something like this.

Hokusai 7y ago

> But your boss is not, and never will be, your friend. I agree with the sentiment. I am still friends with people that were my direct reports many years ago. But, when I was their manager, I treat them fairly like any other employee. That they were my friends meant that we will hang after work hours. But, as I manager I could not be their friends in work hours. Favoritism will have been extremely unfair for the rest of employees, that still were very good people. I also have friends that have been my managers. And, in the job I expected to be treated equally than the rest of employees. I guess that we are still friends because we think in a similar way about justice and work ethics. With teammates has been different. I have been part of awesome teams that we have been friends while working together to later on drift apart as our interests outside the job does not match (quite usually people with children that have limited time to hang out). The opposite of that are managers that "feel betrayed" when you leave a company that has been mistreating you, or tell you that they expect loyalty to the company that is not reciprocal. They are the "paterfamilias" of a dysfunctional and abusive family. There is nothing worse that a manager that expects to be treated as a friend, with loyalty and sacrifice but sees you as just a number.

throwaway5752 7y ago

Your boss can absolutely be your friend. You should be a good friend back and recognize you have two relationships, and if they are a good person with integrity they won't make professional actions on the basis of personal relationships. That's just basic professionalism. I've been friendly with many of my bosses during and after the term of employment I've worked for them. I would never, ever have expected any favoritism on then basis of that friendship from them, including laying me off if necessary and distributing raises and promotions purely based on merit with no regards to our friendship. Any expectations otherwise, to me, would mean I was being the bad friend. I'd have the exact same expectations of family if I worked for them.

pmiller2 7y ago
There's a bit difference between having a "friendly" relationship and being a friend.
- throwaway5752 7y ago
  I completely agree. I still have zero expectations in the professional context. If I couldn't handle that I would quit rather than risk the friendship.

ubu7737 7y ago

A beloved co-worker and the best engineer on my team suddenly had to leave 2 months ago because his H1B renewal was denied. He asked the company HR for help and they sent him home immediately. Tears in his eyes he left us on a Thursday, and we didn't know what to say or how to feel. This is just how it goes. No matter how much we wanted him to stay, there was nothing to be done about it at our level.