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Most of those crops are inedible to humans or the waste products from human crops that are non saleable. Meat is inefficient for calories, but very efficient f

by dalore 6y ago

Most of those crops are inedible to humans or the waste products from human crops that are non saleable. Meat is inefficient for calories, but very efficient for nutrients. Food is more than cheap calories.

geddy 6y ago
What? How can meat possibly be more efficient for nutrients? Where do you think the animals get the nutrients in the first place? Everything originates from plants.
- bad_user 6y ago
  That's a really dumb argument. Where do you think the energy and the nutrients from plants come from? It comes from the sun and the soil. So if plants are a middleman, we might as well eat dirt and stay in the sun all day.
  - geddy 6y ago
    We are biologically herbivores, and we are built to process plants (jaw moves side to side and we have long intestinal tracts, the exact opposite case applies to carnivores). We don't "eat dirt" because we are built to eat plants. Your argument on that is a silly one. You're running anywhere from 5-12x the amount of plant calories (depending on the animal) through animals (that need to be fed water in addition to plants), to produce fractions of calories on the other end. It's highly inefficient and that by itself is a terrific argument for stopping the consumption of animal products. Not to mention all of the potent affects on climate change, and the water usage associated with producing meat. We're paving the rainforests to plant more crops to feed back to animals, despite having millions starving to death. Go search for `animal agriculture inefficient` and read the metric ton of studies if you don't believe me. I can't fathom how you could think that spending 12,000,000 calories of plants to get 1,000,000 calories of beef is worth it "for the nutrients". I'm curious as to what nutrients you think are so critical here, because literally every vital nutrient can be obtained from plants, and in the cases of Vitamin D and B12, they are both supplemented into animal feed as it is, and can easily be taken in pill form.
    - tomrod 6y ago
      I think we are omnivores.
      - geddy 6y ago
        There's a difference between being able to eat meat, and requiring meat. Sure we can eat it and we won't die, but we'll certainly be losing years off our life. The science doesn't lie - you can thrive for a lifetime on only plants, but you won't get far on a lifetime of only meat.
        dalore 6y ago
        Everything you said is true, except the other way. Meat is way we thrived and evolved on. Plants was for survival only. You're right the science doesn't lie. There is no science that shows a lifetime of meat doesn't get you far (there are some that show you excel though). There are questionable questionnaire studies that show association with processed food (and for some reason they put meat in this, further confounding it) has a very small increase correlation with risk of cancer. Meanwhile all those athletes "thriving" on plans actually saw their performance drop.
    - Harvesterify 6y ago
      "We are biologically herbivores" I stopped reading after that. No, we are not.
      - geddy 6y ago
        Feel free to elaborate. Why is it that carnivores have short intestines, teeth for gripping into and tearing flesh, and don't die of colon cancer? We have long intestines for lengthier breakdown of plant fibers. Not so dead animals can rot in it. EDIT: Let me elaborate on this more, actually. Humans are omnivores in the sense that they can consume and not die from eating meat, but you will be void of fiber and other nutrients. Everything is not found in meat, no matter how much HN's god Shawn Baker says so. You can absolutely thrive on a whole foods plant based diet, not destroy the planet, and not pay to support torturing animals, and that is where the fact that we "adapted to be omnivores" becomes irrelevant. We simply don't have to artificially breed billions of animals and feed them all the water and plants, just to survive. We can easily survive on plants alone, and would be much better off for it. Or we can keep enslaving animals and breeding disease and stay quarantined forever. Whatever gives you five minutes of pleasure though, right?

by dalore 6y ago

geddy 6y ago

What? How can meat possibly be more efficient for nutrients? Where do you think the animals get the nutrients in the first place? Everything originates from plants.

bad_user 6y ago
That's a really dumb argument. Where do you think the energy and the nutrients from plants come from? It comes from the sun and the soil. So if plants are a middleman, we might as well eat dirt and stay in the sun all day.
- geddy 6y ago
  We are biologically herbivores, and we are built to process plants (jaw moves side to side and we have long intestinal tracts, the exact opposite case applies to carnivores). We don't "eat dirt" because we are built to eat plants. Your argument on that is a silly one. You're running anywhere from 5-12x the amount of plant calories (depending on the animal) through animals (that need to be fed water in addition to plants), to produce fractions of calories on the other end. It's highly inefficient and that by itself is a terrific argument for stopping the consumption of animal products. Not to mention all of the potent affects on climate change, and the water usage associated with producing meat. We're paving the rainforests to plant more crops to feed back to animals, despite having millions starving to death. Go search for `animal agriculture inefficient` and read the metric ton of studies if you don't believe me. I can't fathom how you could think that spending 12,000,000 calories of plants to get 1,000,000 calories of beef is worth it "for the nutrients". I'm curious as to what nutrients you think are so critical here, because literally every vital nutrient can be obtained from plants, and in the cases of Vitamin D and B12, they are both supplemented into animal feed as it is, and can easily be taken in pill form.
  - tomrod 6y ago
    I think we are omnivores.
    - geddy 6y ago
      There's a difference between being able to eat meat, and requiring meat. Sure we can eat it and we won't die, but we'll certainly be losing years off our life. The science doesn't lie - you can thrive for a lifetime on only plants, but you won't get far on a lifetime of only meat.
      - dalore 6y ago
        Everything you said is true, except the other way. Meat is way we thrived and evolved on. Plants was for survival only. You're right the science doesn't lie. There is no science that shows a lifetime of meat doesn't get you far (there are some that show you excel though). There are questionable questionnaire studies that show association with processed food (and for some reason they put meat in this, further confounding it) has a very small increase correlation with risk of cancer. Meanwhile all those athletes "thriving" on plans actually saw their performance drop.
  - Harvesterify 6y ago
    "We are biologically herbivores" I stopped reading after that. No, we are not.
    - geddy 6y ago
      Feel free to elaborate. Why is it that carnivores have short intestines, teeth for gripping into and tearing flesh, and don't die of colon cancer? We have long intestines for lengthier breakdown of plant fibers. Not so dead animals can rot in it. EDIT: Let me elaborate on this more, actually. Humans are omnivores in the sense that they can consume and not die from eating meat, but you will be void of fiber and other nutrients. Everything is not found in meat, no matter how much HN's god Shawn Baker says so. You can absolutely thrive on a whole foods plant based diet, not destroy the planet, and not pay to support torturing animals, and that is where the fact that we "adapted to be omnivores" becomes irrelevant. We simply don't have to artificially breed billions of animals and feed them all the water and plants, just to survive. We can easily survive on plants alone, and would be much better off for it. Or we can keep enslaving animals and breeding disease and stay quarantined forever. Whatever gives you five minutes of pleasure though, right?