4 ms·

Not OP but: local media in Eastern Europe bash Sweden hard with TV news pieces showing open shops and restaurants, people in groups etc, while here in Serbia we

by bnt 6y ago

Not OP but: local media in Eastern Europe bash Sweden hard with TV news pieces showing open shops and restaurants, people in groups etc, while here in Serbia we’re in complete lockdown. This also makes me feel like Sweden doesn’t care, but again, I have no first hand info except what TV and Reddit tell me. This might be OPs “source”.

morsch 6y ago
There's a lesson here...
henrikschroder 6y ago
Ok. It is possible to cherry-pick exactly whatever view you want to show by sending a camera team to Stockholm. Some places are completely deserted that would normally be bustling with people. And some places appear to be bustling with people who seem to ignore official recommendations. And some places are bustling with people who are ignoring recommendations, because Sweden has its fair share of idiots like every other country. I suspect that there is a strong wish for Sweden to fail among people in countries with severe lockdowns, because that would validate their decisions to lock down in the first place. Sweden must be "punished" for not following the herd, because if it isn't, it means that the herd was wrong, it means that suffering through a lockdown was for nothing. It means your local politicians over-reacted, and destroyed parts of the economy needlessly. And then you get these hit pieces that says everyone in Sweden is out and about, hugging and licking each other, and everyone died of the zombie apocalypse Last Thursday. My best guess is that the truth is a lot more complicated than that, and that there absolutely isn't any kind of simple linear relationship between the severity of lockdown measures and excess deaths. There are so many variables, so much random noise, and so much cultural difference between countries. If every country is doing 20-30-40-50 different measures at once, how can we even start to figure out which ones do something, and which ones don't? Is washing your hands more important than wearing a mask while you're outside? Is closing workplaces more efficient than closing schools? There's appearing evidence that kids actually are very bad transmitters of this particular virus - contrary to "common sense", which dictates that kids are filthy petri dishes that are always sick and always spreading disease. We know so little right now. It's going to take years before we'll know which countries did the right thing and which countries did the wrong thing.
- icebraining 6y ago
  I'm sure self-validation plays a large part, but the other reason is because local critics of lockdown are using Sweden (which at least here in Southern Europe is generally associated with good governance, as opposed to ours) as an argument for their side. So even people who agree with you that it's too early to tell from the numbers, but who think the lockdown is in theory the best approach, feel forced to write stuff showing how bad things are going for them.
- null_object 6y ago
  The "it's gonna take years to know" is the line being pushed very hard by Swedish authorities locally. Makes the massive difference in deaths-per-million here compared to our Nordic neighbors much easier to swallow. The policy will look extremely unfortunate if one of the vaccines that's already being trialled actually works...

by bnt 6y ago

morsch 6y ago

There's a lesson here...

henrikschroder 6y ago

Ok. It is possible to cherry-pick exactly whatever view you want to show by sending a camera team to Stockholm. Some places are completely deserted that would normally be bustling with people. And some places appear to be bustling with people who seem to ignore official recommendations. And some places are bustling with people who are ignoring recommendations, because Sweden has its fair share of idiots like every other country. I suspect that there is a strong wish for Sweden to fail among people in countries with severe lockdowns, because that would validate their decisions to lock down in the first place. Sweden must be "punished" for not following the herd, because if it isn't, it means that the herd was wrong, it means that suffering through a lockdown was for nothing. It means your local politicians over-reacted, and destroyed parts of the economy needlessly. And then you get these hit pieces that says everyone in Sweden is out and about, hugging and licking each other, and everyone died of the zombie apocalypse Last Thursday. My best guess is that the truth is a lot more complicated than that, and that there absolutely isn't any kind of simple linear relationship between the severity of lockdown measures and excess deaths. There are so many variables, so much random noise, and so much cultural difference between countries. If every country is doing 20-30-40-50 different measures at once, how can we even start to figure out which ones do something, and which ones don't? Is washing your hands more important than wearing a mask while you're outside? Is closing workplaces more efficient than closing schools? There's appearing evidence that kids actually are very bad transmitters of this particular virus - contrary to "common sense", which dictates that kids are filthy petri dishes that are always sick and always spreading disease. We know so little right now. It's going to take years before we'll know which countries did the right thing and which countries did the wrong thing.

icebraining 6y ago
I'm sure self-validation plays a large part, but the other reason is because local critics of lockdown are using Sweden (which at least here in Southern Europe is generally associated with good governance, as opposed to ours) as an argument for their side. So even people who agree with you that it's too early to tell from the numbers, but who think the lockdown is in theory the best approach, feel forced to write stuff showing how bad things are going for them.
null_object 6y ago
The "it's gonna take years to know" is the line being pushed very hard by Swedish authorities locally. Makes the massive difference in deaths-per-million here compared to our Nordic neighbors much easier to swallow. The policy will look extremely unfortunate if one of the vaccines that's already being trialled actually works...