5 ms·

Sweden's current policy is basically to do nothing and let nature take its course.

by fiblye 6y ago

Bombthecat 6y ago
They have limitations. They also started with way lower numbers. So keeping open with limitations is way easier. Also, its probably the right approach. You cant lock down for one or two years at least..
- CyanBird 6y ago
  Saying "you can't lock down for one to two years" is an absurd strawman as nobody would ever advocate for that Having a gradient of social distancing and having it be enforced by government officials is the only sane way to avoid mass needless death which is what is happening in Sweden right about now
  - noughtme 6y ago
    Sweden’s position is that deaths are not avoidable. At the end of the pandemic they expect the death rate across most countries (with the exception of some outliers, like Italy) to be broadly similar. As such they have decided it makes no sense to completely shutdown the economy with all the longterm implications that would entail. As long as moderate social distancing prevents their healthcare system from being overwhelmed, they believe that to be optimal.
- tilolebo 6y ago
  According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing they don't test much, so the numbers are far from accurate.
  - IkmoIkmo 6y ago
    They have around 10k tests per 1 million, that's not regarded as very little. US keeps saying it tests the most in the world and it's at 14k. Korea is known for massive testing, at 10k. Rich and well-struck countries like UK/France tests fewer cases. They're not top testers but definitely significant testers. In part it helps that they're one of the least dense countries in the world at around 20 people per square kilometer, compared to say 400/500 for the Netherlands and South Korea. The difference is less pronounced in cities of course but still there (when will we ever get population density figures for the median person who is weighted towards living in proximity, rather than a country-wide average)
    - tilolebo 6y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing#Virus_testing_statistics_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing#Virus_testing... Sweden is n. 35 in "Tests / million people", that's not good enough IMO. 16% of the tests are positive! How else do you want to control how the virus spreads? On what data do they base their decisions?
styren 6y ago
I'm Swedish and this is not true at all, please stop spreading misinformation
- fiblye 6y ago
  Every media source I've come across says that Sweden is doing practically nothing compared to its neighbors.[1][2][3] They're also coincidentally suffering from far higher infection rates than their neighbors. I've seen nothing saying they're making strong efforts aside from comments posted here and there, but I'd be interested in seeing sources. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/how-sweden-and-norway-handled-coronavirus-differently-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-sweden-and-norway-handle... [2] https://www.vox.com/2020/4/9/21213472/coronavirus-sweden-herd-immunity-cases-death https://www.vox.com/2020/4/9/21213472/coronavirus-sweden-her... [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/gabrielleigh/2020/04/10/sweden-continues-with-controversial-coronavirus-strategy-is-it-a-big-mistake/#2360d4b228a2 https://www.forbes.com/sites/gabrielleigh/2020/04/10/sweden-...
  - henrikschroder 6y ago
    Try this article: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/can-you-beat-covid-19-without-a-lockdown-sweden-is-trying https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/can-you-beat-covid-1... "To start with, it’s a myth that Sweden is doing nothing about the virus. Most Swedes have changed their habits a lot. Schools for older kids are closed, as are universities. People are working from home, when they can, and the elderly are being urged to keep to themselves. Gatherings of over 50 people are prohibited, and ski resorts are closed. Restaurants and bars are allowing table service only, and grocery stores are installing glass dividers between customers and cashiers." "Second, contrary to the claims of John Fund and Joel Hay and many others, Sweden isn’t trying to develop “herd immunity,” meaning a state of affairs in which so many people get the virus that the virus runs out of kindling. (At least, Swedish officials claim they aren’t doing this, and they would have a lot to lose by lying about it.) Instead, Sweden intends to take as loose an approach as possible that still keeps case growth down to nonexponential numbers." "With these premises in mind, Sweden has pumped the brakes instead of slamming on them. You close school for older kids, but you keep grade school going, because evidence so far suggests that younger children are not a major cause of transmission for the novel coronavirus."
henrikschroder 6y ago
You are 100% wrong, Sweden is doing a lot of things to minimize the coronavirus impact. But I'm curious why you are claiming something that is so completely wrong. Where did you get the idea from? Are you living in Sweden and strongly disagreeing with the official response, or are you living somewhere else, but "read it on the internet" ?
- bnt 6y ago
  Not OP but: local media in Eastern Europe bash Sweden hard with TV news pieces showing open shops and restaurants, people in groups etc, while here in Serbia we’re in complete lockdown. This also makes me feel like Sweden doesn’t care, but again, I have no first hand info except what TV and Reddit tell me. This might be OPs “source”.
  - morsch 6y ago
    There's a lesson here...
  - henrikschroder 6y ago
    Ok. It is possible to cherry-pick exactly whatever view you want to show by sending a camera team to Stockholm. Some places are completely deserted that would normally be bustling with people. And some places appear to be bustling with people who seem to ignore official recommendations. And some places are bustling with people who are ignoring recommendations, because Sweden has its fair share of idiots like every other country. I suspect that there is a strong wish for Sweden to fail among people in countries with severe lockdowns, because that would validate their decisions to lock down in the first place. Sweden must be "punished" for not following the herd, because if it isn't, it means that the herd was wrong, it means that suffering through a lockdown was for nothing. It means your local politicians over-reacted, and destroyed parts of the economy needlessly. And then you get these hit pieces that says everyone in Sweden is out and about, hugging and licking each other, and everyone died of the zombie apocalypse Last Thursday. My best guess is that the truth is a lot more complicated than that, and that there absolutely isn't any kind of simple linear relationship between the severity of lockdown measures and excess deaths. There are so many variables, so much random noise, and so much cultural difference between countries. If every country is doing 20-30-40-50 different measures at once, how can we even start to figure out which ones do something, and which ones don't? Is washing your hands more important than wearing a mask while you're outside? Is closing workplaces more efficient than closing schools? There's appearing evidence that kids actually are very bad transmitters of this particular virus - contrary to "common sense", which dictates that kids are filthy petri dishes that are always sick and always spreading disease. We know so little right now. It's going to take years before we'll know which countries did the right thing and which countries did the wrong thing.

Sweden's current policy is basically to do nothing and let nature take its course.

by fiblye 6y ago

Sweden's current policy is basically to do nothing and let nature take its course.

They have limitations. They also started with way lower numbers. So keeping open with limitations is way easier. Also, its probably the right approach. You cant lock down for one or two years at least..

CyanBird 6y ago
Saying "you can't lock down for one to two years" is an absurd strawman as nobody would ever advocate for that Having a gradient of social distancing and having it be enforced by government officials is the only sane way to avoid mass needless death which is what is happening in Sweden right about now
- noughtme 6y ago
  Sweden’s position is that deaths are not avoidable. At the end of the pandemic they expect the death rate across most countries (with the exception of some outliers, like Italy) to be broadly similar. As such they have decided it makes no sense to completely shutdown the economy with all the longterm implications that would entail. As long as moderate social distancing prevents their healthcare system from being overwhelmed, they believe that to be optimal.
tilolebo 6y ago
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing they don't test much, so the numbers are far from accurate.
- IkmoIkmo 6y ago
  They have around 10k tests per 1 million, that's not regarded as very little. US keeps saying it tests the most in the world and it's at 14k. Korea is known for massive testing, at 10k. Rich and well-struck countries like UK/France tests fewer cases. They're not top testers but definitely significant testers. In part it helps that they're one of the least dense countries in the world at around 20 people per square kilometer, compared to say 400/500 for the Netherlands and South Korea. The difference is less pronounced in cities of course but still there (when will we ever get population density figures for the median person who is weighted towards living in proximity, rather than a country-wide average)
  - tilolebo 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing#Virus_testing_statistics_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_testing#Virus_testing... Sweden is n. 35 in "Tests / million people", that's not good enough IMO. 16% of the tests are positive! How else do you want to control how the virus spreads? On what data do they base their decisions?

styren 6y ago

I'm Swedish and this is not true at all, please stop spreading misinformation

fiblye 6y ago
Every media source I've come across says that Sweden is doing practically nothing compared to its neighbors.[1][2][3] They're also coincidentally suffering from far higher infection rates than their neighbors. I've seen nothing saying they're making strong efforts aside from comments posted here and there, but I'd be interested in seeing sources. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/how-sweden-and-norway-handled-coronavirus-differently-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-sweden-and-norway-handle... [2] https://www.vox.com/2020/4/9/21213472/coronavirus-sweden-herd-immunity-cases-death https://www.vox.com/2020/4/9/21213472/coronavirus-sweden-her... [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/gabrielleigh/2020/04/10/sweden-continues-with-controversial-coronavirus-strategy-is-it-a-big-mistake/#2360d4b228a2 https://www.forbes.com/sites/gabrielleigh/2020/04/10/sweden-...
- henrikschroder 6y ago
  Try this article: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/can-you-beat-covid-19-without-a-lockdown-sweden-is-trying https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04/can-you-beat-covid-1... "To start with, it’s a myth that Sweden is doing nothing about the virus. Most Swedes have changed their habits a lot. Schools for older kids are closed, as are universities. People are working from home, when they can, and the elderly are being urged to keep to themselves. Gatherings of over 50 people are prohibited, and ski resorts are closed. Restaurants and bars are allowing table service only, and grocery stores are installing glass dividers between customers and cashiers." "Second, contrary to the claims of John Fund and Joel Hay and many others, Sweden isn’t trying to develop “herd immunity,” meaning a state of affairs in which so many people get the virus that the virus runs out of kindling. (At least, Swedish officials claim they aren’t doing this, and they would have a lot to lose by lying about it.) Instead, Sweden intends to take as loose an approach as possible that still keeps case growth down to nonexponential numbers." "With these premises in mind, Sweden has pumped the brakes instead of slamming on them. You close school for older kids, but you keep grade school going, because evidence so far suggests that younger children are not a major cause of transmission for the novel coronavirus."

henrikschroder 6y ago

You are 100% wrong, Sweden is doing a lot of things to minimize the coronavirus impact. But I'm curious why you are claiming something that is so completely wrong. Where did you get the idea from? Are you living in Sweden and strongly disagreeing with the official response, or are you living somewhere else, but "read it on the internet" ?

bnt 6y ago
Not OP but: local media in Eastern Europe bash Sweden hard with TV news pieces showing open shops and restaurants, people in groups etc, while here in Serbia we’re in complete lockdown. This also makes me feel like Sweden doesn’t care, but again, I have no first hand info except what TV and Reddit tell me. This might be OPs “source”.
- morsch 6y ago
  There's a lesson here...
- henrikschroder 6y ago
  Ok. It is possible to cherry-pick exactly whatever view you want to show by sending a camera team to Stockholm. Some places are completely deserted that would normally be bustling with people. And some places appear to be bustling with people who seem to ignore official recommendations. And some places are bustling with people who are ignoring recommendations, because Sweden has its fair share of idiots like every other country. I suspect that there is a strong wish for Sweden to fail among people in countries with severe lockdowns, because that would validate their decisions to lock down in the first place. Sweden must be "punished" for not following the herd, because if it isn't, it means that the herd was wrong, it means that suffering through a lockdown was for nothing. It means your local politicians over-reacted, and destroyed parts of the economy needlessly. And then you get these hit pieces that says everyone in Sweden is out and about, hugging and licking each other, and everyone died of the zombie apocalypse Last Thursday. My best guess is that the truth is a lot more complicated than that, and that there absolutely isn't any kind of simple linear relationship between the severity of lockdown measures and excess deaths. There are so many variables, so much random noise, and so much cultural difference between countries. If every country is doing 20-30-40-50 different measures at once, how can we even start to figure out which ones do something, and which ones don't? Is washing your hands more important than wearing a mask while you're outside? Is closing workplaces more efficient than closing schools? There's appearing evidence that kids actually are very bad transmitters of this particular virus - contrary to "common sense", which dictates that kids are filthy petri dishes that are always sick and always spreading disease. We know so little right now. It's going to take years before we'll know which countries did the right thing and which countries did the wrong thing.