4 ms·

Hasn't the latest MacBook Pro 16 inches evolved in the cooling design? I thought it was much better.

zitterbewegung 6y ago
In the 15 inch they undervalued the processor and got better thermals. In the 16 Inch they have different fan curves and larger thermal intakes and fans. I manually disable Intel Turbo boost now though. And for some reason when I start up my laptop it can reach around 90 degrees C if I have a bunch of things open (I guess it turbos when it is restoring previous apps open) but that makes sense though.
- onepointsixC 6y ago
  How did you disable Turbo? I regularly hit 90 when I start running unit tests or compile xcode. I've gotten into a habit of preemptively setting the fans to max before doing anything like that now.
  - fwip 6y ago
    I use https://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/ https://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/ to disable Turbo Boost - it requires some weird permissions, but seems to work alright.
    - sulam 6y ago
      "it requires some weird permissions" -- https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/04/when-in-doubt-hang-up-look-up-call-back/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/04/when-in-doubt-hang-up-lo... Corollary: when in doubt, don't.
      - zitterbewegung 6y ago
        If you want to interact with the cpu directly it needs to be a ktext which is part of the kernel. This ability will be removed in 10.16
  - ThePhysicist 6y ago
    Intel Extreme Tuning Utility lets you tweak almost any parameter but it only works on Windows, if you have dual boot you can use it though (I think) as it persists settings to the firmware/BIOS. For MacOS there’s e.g. “Volta” I think which can help.
  - tomcooks 6y ago
    That's what the TURBO button on the case is for, duh /s
    - renewiltord 6y ago
      I felt so cheated when I discovered that the Turbo button was actually a way to slow things down when you turn off turbo. I spent so long as a child "running the computer responsibly so it doesn't overheat"! I also recall the patches people had for things like Jazz Jackrabbit that ran a busy-loop some number of times in hot code because timing was execution-dependent in games like that. Faster CPUs made the game unplayable!
      - sizzle 6y ago
        I absolutely loved playing Jazz Jackrabbit, wasn't expecting to see a reference to it, thanks for the nostalgia :)
fwip 6y ago
I switched from a Macbook pro 13" (2015) to the 16" this year. It's much noisier in day-to-day usage, which I've tracked down to high heat generated by the discrete GPU whenever it is in use (regardless of load). Unfortunately, some conditions force the discrete GPU to activate - one of which is "being plugged into an external monitor." Even if you've only got terminals open, the GPU runs real hot with 1% load, and the fans ramp up to match. (This may only be true for some monitors - my work-provided monitor is the Apple Thunderbolt Display). Sometimes Slack forces the discrete GPU to turn on, for example when clicking on an embedded youtube video. The discrete GPU will remain in use until Slack is restarted. Other applications sometimes behave similarly - I use https://gfx.io/ https://gfx.io/ to see what applications are forcing it on. Perhaps the cooling engineering is better, but the practical effects of it make me miss my 13" laptop.
- the_pwner224 6y ago
  This was also true for me on a 2012 MBP (on HDMI and DisplayPort iirc). My XPS 15 had a similar issue where turning on the GPU made it heat up and become loud - actually the discrete GPU offered no performance increase because the heat made everything throttle....... sad! At least I could use an external monitor with that one though. It's just a limitation of the laptop form factor. My desktop has a 45 watt processor, same as the i7s, and it has a huge block of metal and a 120mm fan to keep it cool quietly (but still audible under load). There's no way to fit a 45w CPU and 45w GPU into a laptop and make it work.
  - fwip 6y ago
    I'm okay with the fans spinning up loud when I'm doing something intense! I expect that transcoding video or `make -j12` will put out a lot of heat. I'm frustrated because the fans often spin up loud when GPU usage and CPU usage are both below 10% - when I'm literally just reading my email.
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  > Unfortunately, some conditions force the discrete GPU to activate - one of which is "being plugged into an external monitor." Had something similar with AMD (desktop) GPU some years ago. It wouldn't go to the lower power states if my desktop refresh rate was set above 119 Hz. So it would be hot and fairly loud. So I ended up using 119 Hz on the desktop and configure games to use 144 Hz. I also noticed that the video card wouldn't decrease the RAM clock rate significantly, but when on the desktop reducing the RAM clock a lot had a very noticeable impact on heat and no measurable performance degradation. The answer I got for that was that it was tricky to dynamically scale the RAM to such a degree (IIRC I set it to half normal speed). I ended up using an overclocking tool with profiles, worked fine.

In the 15 inch they undervalued the processor and got better thermals. In the 16 Inch they have different fan curves and larger thermal intakes and fans. I manually disable Intel Turbo boost now though. And for some reason when I start up my laptop it can reach around 90 degrees C if I have a bunch of things open (I guess it turbos when it is restoring previous apps open) but that makes sense though.

onepointsixC 6y ago
How did you disable Turbo? I regularly hit 90 when I start running unit tests or compile xcode. I've gotten into a habit of preemptively setting the fans to max before doing anything like that now.
- fwip 6y ago
  I use https://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/ https://www.rugarciap.com/turbo-boost-switcher-for-os-x/ to disable Turbo Boost - it requires some weird permissions, but seems to work alright.
  - sulam 6y ago
    "it requires some weird permissions" -- https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/04/when-in-doubt-hang-up-look-up-call-back/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/04/when-in-doubt-hang-up-lo... Corollary: when in doubt, don't.
    - zitterbewegung 6y ago
      If you want to interact with the cpu directly it needs to be a ktext which is part of the kernel. This ability will be removed in 10.16
- ThePhysicist 6y ago
  Intel Extreme Tuning Utility lets you tweak almost any parameter but it only works on Windows, if you have dual boot you can use it though (I think) as it persists settings to the firmware/BIOS. For MacOS there’s e.g. “Volta” I think which can help.
- tomcooks 6y ago
  That's what the TURBO button on the case is for, duh /s
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    I felt so cheated when I discovered that the Turbo button was actually a way to slow things down when you turn off turbo. I spent so long as a child "running the computer responsibly so it doesn't overheat"! I also recall the patches people had for things like Jazz Jackrabbit that ran a busy-loop some number of times in hot code because timing was execution-dependent in games like that. Faster CPUs made the game unplayable!
    - sizzle 6y ago
      I absolutely loved playing Jazz Jackrabbit, wasn't expecting to see a reference to it, thanks for the nostalgia :)

fwip 6y ago

I switched from a Macbook pro 13" (2015) to the 16" this year. It's much noisier in day-to-day usage, which I've tracked down to high heat generated by the discrete GPU whenever it is in use (regardless of load). Unfortunately, some conditions force the discrete GPU to activate - one of which is "being plugged into an external monitor." Even if you've only got terminals open, the GPU runs real hot with 1% load, and the fans ramp up to match. (This may only be true for some monitors - my work-provided monitor is the Apple Thunderbolt Display). Sometimes Slack forces the discrete GPU to turn on, for example when clicking on an embedded youtube video. The discrete GPU will remain in use until Slack is restarted. Other applications sometimes behave similarly - I use https://gfx.io/ https://gfx.io/ to see what applications are forcing it on. Perhaps the cooling engineering is better, but the practical effects of it make me miss my 13" laptop.

the_pwner224 6y ago
This was also true for me on a 2012 MBP (on HDMI and DisplayPort iirc). My XPS 15 had a similar issue where turning on the GPU made it heat up and become loud - actually the discrete GPU offered no performance increase because the heat made everything throttle....... sad! At least I could use an external monitor with that one though. It's just a limitation of the laptop form factor. My desktop has a 45 watt processor, same as the i7s, and it has a huge block of metal and a 120mm fan to keep it cool quietly (but still audible under load). There's no way to fit a 45w CPU and 45w GPU into a laptop and make it work.
- fwip 6y ago
  I'm okay with the fans spinning up loud when I'm doing something intense! I expect that transcoding video or `make -j12` will put out a lot of heat. I'm frustrated because the fans often spin up loud when GPU usage and CPU usage are both below 10% - when I'm literally just reading my email.
magicalhippo 6y ago
> Unfortunately, some conditions force the discrete GPU to activate - one of which is "being plugged into an external monitor." Had something similar with AMD (desktop) GPU some years ago. It wouldn't go to the lower power states if my desktop refresh rate was set above 119 Hz. So it would be hot and fairly loud. So I ended up using 119 Hz on the desktop and configure games to use 144 Hz. I also noticed that the video card wouldn't decrease the RAM clock rate significantly, but when on the desktop reducing the RAM clock a lot had a very noticeable impact on heat and no measurable performance degradation. The answer I got for that was that it was tricky to dynamically scale the RAM to such a degree (IIRC I set it to half normal speed). I ended up using an overclocking tool with profiles, worked fine.