5 ms·

The WHO denied human-to-human transmission even after Taiwan told them about it, and they dug their heels on calling the outbreak a pandemic for weeks. I think

by graeme 7y ago

The WHO denied human-to-human transmission even after Taiwan told them about it, and they dug their heels on calling the outbreak a pandemic for weeks. I think it depends how youtube draws the line. If they’re removing stuff like “use colloidial silver” or “no need to wash your hands” then sure. But the WHO is not gospel.

nemo 7y ago
The errors the WHO has made have generally been corrected and so far as reliable authorities go on the pandemic there isn't a more reliable one, even if all are fallible. It's a better standard than nothing for stopping misinformation from killing people.
- Red-Ted 7y ago
  Hello CCP so glad you could join us.
- graeme 7y ago
  I agree that they're generally have good advice. But, I looked at their mask guidance, and they're still recommending that healthy people do not need to wear masks. This ignores the possibility that people may be asymptomatic and contagious. Some government authorities have called for mask wearing outside. They are contradicting the WHO. Should Youtube remove these views? That's why I said it all depends just how strictly they're going on WHO guidelines. If they're only removing obvious nonsense, fine. But the WHO should not be the only authority, especially if different health authorities may disagree. https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2...
arrrg 7y ago
The WHO never denied human-to-human transmission. This is a blatant lie.
- cryptochromium 7y ago
  "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China," https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152?s=20 https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152?s=20
  - edejong 7y ago
    Absence of evidence of an effect does not entail evidence of absence of that effect.
    - xref 7y ago
      Not sure what you're trying to say about the WHOs ongoing evidence gathering in the context of this tweet?
  - zknz 7y ago
    That's not a denial. It's a we have yet to confirm.
    - tomp 7y ago
      But surely the prudent, cautious way of wording a non-denial would be "no clear evidence of the impossibility of human-to-human transmission"?
      - MisterBastahrd 7y ago
        And how do you go about testing that hypothesis except for placing infected people next to uninfected people and watching for them to become infected? Their phrasing is correct and so is their methodology.
    - __blockcipher__ 7y ago
      That’s totally true, but I don’t think it should be controversial to say that the WHO lied by omission, and that their statement was intentionally intended to convince countries _not_ to lock down.
xref 7y ago
Did the WHO explicitly deny human transmission? Their earliest reports I saw said “we have no confirmed evidence of human transmission, but we are likely to find it”. It’s the second half of the sentence that people and the media seem to have ignored. EDIT: Here's the link to their news conference on Jan 14th (same day as the "China has not reported human-to-human transmission" tweet): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-pneumonia-who/who-says-new-china-coronavirus-could-spread-warns-hospitals-worldwide-idUSKBN1ZD16J https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-pneumonia-wh... Relevant bits: >“From the information that we have it is possible that there is limited human-to-human transmission, potentially among families, but it is very clear right now that we have no sustained human-to-human transmission,” said Maria Van Kerkhove, acting head of WHO’s emerging diseases unit. The WHO is however preparing for the possibility that there could be a wider outbreak, she told a Geneva news briefing. “It is still early days, we don’t have a clear clinical picture.”
- dx87 7y ago
  I didn't see where they said that second half, do you have a source? Because all I saw was a tweet from them saying that they haven't found any evidence of human to human transmission.
knzhou 7y ago
> The WHO denied human-to-human transmission This is one of those completely false things that people only believe is true by repetition. Go back and actually read the full set of WHO statements in mid-January. They have a bunch of statements saying that nations should get prepared, one saying that specific studies haven’t yet found hard evidence for person-to-person transmission (because at that point most of the cases they’d managed to find were tied to the market). The WHO never, ever said that it can’t be transmitted, and they absolutely never said that people should do nothing about COVID-19. They were urging nations to act for months before they actually did.
- 0xy 7y ago
  "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China" https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152 https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152 (this is CCP propaganda and they had zero access at the time, and it was after Taiwan told them about human-to-human transmission)
xster 7y ago
Can you be specific on > The WHO denied human-to-human transmission even after Taiwan told them about it I don't think anyone on HN needs to be told that "there are no clear evidence of human to human transmission" is not the same as "there are evidence that human to human transmission is not possible" which is how everyone is trying their hardest to interpret it as. > even after Taiwan told them about it Do you have a primary source about it? Every time someone references it, it's an editorial obfuscating the embarrassing primary source of Taiwan's "warning" email from December 31 which reads: "News resources today indicate that at least seven atypical pneumonia cases were reported in Wuhan, CHINA. Their health authorities replied to the media that the cases were believed not SARS; however the samples are still under examination, and cases have been isolated for treatment. I would greatly appreciate it if you have relevant information to share with us. Thank you very much in advance for your attention to this matter." where they're asking for the WHO's help clarifying something they heard over the news.
- 0xy 7y ago
  Taiwan told them about human-to-human transmission in December, and the WHO responded by repeating CCP propaganda verbatim in January saying there was no evidence of it. Note that at the time WHO had zero access to China, because of the cover-up ongoing.
  - xster 7y ago
    If you read my post I'm exactly answering your point.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]

by graeme 7y ago

nemo 7y ago

The errors the WHO has made have generally been corrected and so far as reliable authorities go on the pandemic there isn't a more reliable one, even if all are fallible. It's a better standard than nothing for stopping misinformation from killing people.

Red-Ted 7y ago
Hello CCP so glad you could join us.
graeme 7y ago
I agree that they're generally have good advice. But, I looked at their mask guidance, and they're still recommending that healthy people do not need to wear masks. This ignores the possibility that people may be asymptomatic and contagious. Some government authorities have called for mask wearing outside. They are contradicting the WHO. Should Youtube remove these views? That's why I said it all depends just how strictly they're going on WHO guidelines. If they're only removing obvious nonsense, fine. But the WHO should not be the only authority, especially if different health authorities may disagree. https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2...

arrrg 7y ago

The WHO never denied human-to-human transmission. This is a blatant lie.

cryptochromium 7y ago
"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China," https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152?s=20 https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152?s=20
- edejong 7y ago
  Absence of evidence of an effect does not entail evidence of absence of that effect.
  - xref 7y ago
    Not sure what you're trying to say about the WHOs ongoing evidence gathering in the context of this tweet?
- zknz 7y ago
  That's not a denial. It's a we have yet to confirm.
  - tomp 7y ago
    But surely the prudent, cautious way of wording a non-denial would be "no clear evidence of the impossibility of human-to-human transmission"?
    - MisterBastahrd 7y ago
      And how do you go about testing that hypothesis except for placing infected people next to uninfected people and watching for them to become infected? Their phrasing is correct and so is their methodology.
  - __blockcipher__ 7y ago
    That’s totally true, but I don’t think it should be controversial to say that the WHO lied by omission, and that their statement was intentionally intended to convince countries _not_ to lock down.

xref 7y ago

Did the WHO explicitly deny human transmission? Their earliest reports I saw said “we have no confirmed evidence of human transmission, but we are likely to find it”. It’s the second half of the sentence that people and the media seem to have ignored. EDIT: Here's the link to their news conference on Jan 14th (same day as the "China has not reported human-to-human transmission" tweet): https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-pneumonia-who/who-says-new-china-coronavirus-could-spread-warns-hospitals-worldwide-idUSKBN1ZD16J https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-pneumonia-wh... Relevant bits: >“From the information that we have it is possible that there is limited human-to-human transmission, potentially among families, but it is very clear right now that we have no sustained human-to-human transmission,” said Maria Van Kerkhove, acting head of WHO’s emerging diseases unit. The WHO is however preparing for the possibility that there could be a wider outbreak, she told a Geneva news briefing. “It is still early days, we don’t have a clear clinical picture.”

dx87 7y ago
I didn't see where they said that second half, do you have a source? Because all I saw was a tweet from them saying that they haven't found any evidence of human to human transmission.

knzhou 7y ago

> The WHO denied human-to-human transmission This is one of those completely false things that people only believe is true by repetition. Go back and actually read the full set of WHO statements in mid-January. They have a bunch of statements saying that nations should get prepared, one saying that specific studies haven’t yet found hard evidence for person-to-person transmission (because at that point most of the cases they’d managed to find were tied to the market). The WHO never, ever said that it can’t be transmitted, and they absolutely never said that people should do nothing about COVID-19. They were urging nations to act for months before they actually did.

0xy 7y ago
"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China" https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152 https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152 (this is CCP propaganda and they had zero access at the time, and it was after Taiwan told them about human-to-human transmission)

xster 7y ago

Can you be specific on > The WHO denied human-to-human transmission even after Taiwan told them about it I don't think anyone on HN needs to be told that "there are no clear evidence of human to human transmission" is not the same as "there are evidence that human to human transmission is not possible" which is how everyone is trying their hardest to interpret it as. > even after Taiwan told them about it Do you have a primary source about it? Every time someone references it, it's an editorial obfuscating the embarrassing primary source of Taiwan's "warning" email from December 31 which reads: "News resources today indicate that at least seven atypical pneumonia cases were reported in Wuhan, CHINA. Their health authorities replied to the media that the cases were believed not SARS; however the samples are still under examination, and cases have been isolated for treatment. I would greatly appreciate it if you have relevant information to share with us. Thank you very much in advance for your attention to this matter." where they're asking for the WHO's help clarifying something they heard over the news.

0xy 7y ago
Taiwan told them about human-to-human transmission in December, and the WHO responded by repeating CCP propaganda verbatim in January saying there was no evidence of it. Note that at the time WHO had zero access to China, because of the cover-up ongoing.
- xster 7y ago
  If you read my post I'm exactly answering your point.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]