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The only good news that I am getting out of this, is that NYC seems to have avoided the dreaded 3-5% fatality rate that was the presumed worse case scenario (ma

The only good news that I am getting out of this, is that NYC seems to have avoided the dreaded 3-5% fatality rate that was the presumed worse case scenario (massive community spread, overloaded healthcare system). But the lockdown likely helped a lot, and it seems like they are seeing around 1% IFR, so I am not sure this really changes anything. Our understanding of the disease and how to treat it may also be getting better, but it still seems like if we let this thing run wild through the population (as some people on here are proposing) local health care systems will collapse and we will have a IFR orders of magnitude higher than the flu. And as you pointed out, if the study came back with an infection rate of 50%, I am not sure I would consider that good news either. That means it would be nearly impossible to isolate vulnerable populations. So while a 50% infection rate would mean the IFR is lower, it also means opening things back up and only isolating the vulnerable would not work to protect them.

electricviolet 7y ago
If the infection rate were 50% we would be close to herd immunity (which I've read would require about 70% for this virus), so that would be better news in a sense. Unfortunately 21% is a long way from 70%, and it's taken a massive amount of death to get to that point.
- lostapathy 7y ago
  The herd gets substantial benefits long before you get to 70% or whatever rate for full herd immunity. The spread starts to slow before that point. If you're walking around infected and 20% of the people you come in contact with cannot catch it from you, 20% less people are going to catch it, no matter how much you cough on them.
- qqqwerty 7y ago
  The R0 value impacts herd immunity %. So if NYC is already at 50%, then it means R0 is much higher than we thought, which means herd immunity would probably be as high as +90%. With numbers like that, not shutting down would result in the entire population getting infected in the span of a month or two. The point I was trying to make, was that for the 'open back up' crowd, they are arguing that the IFR is similar to the flu, and only vulnerable populations are really impacted. So they say we should open up and just keep vulnerable population in lockdown. But they are ignoring the implications of the R0 value in their argument. i.e. if the IFR is really as low as they think (and consequently, the infected population is as high as they think), then nothing short of a total lockdown (or very aggressive testing and contract tracing) would stop vulnerable populations from getting infected.
  - greedo 7y ago
    Also, protecting the vulnerable sounds simple, but is incredibly difficult in practice.

electricviolet 7y ago

If the infection rate were 50% we would be close to herd immunity (which I've read would require about 70% for this virus), so that would be better news in a sense. Unfortunately 21% is a long way from 70%, and it's taken a massive amount of death to get to that point.

lostapathy 7y ago
The herd gets substantial benefits long before you get to 70% or whatever rate for full herd immunity. The spread starts to slow before that point. If you're walking around infected and 20% of the people you come in contact with cannot catch it from you, 20% less people are going to catch it, no matter how much you cough on them.
qqqwerty 7y ago
The R0 value impacts herd immunity %. So if NYC is already at 50%, then it means R0 is much higher than we thought, which means herd immunity would probably be as high as +90%. With numbers like that, not shutting down would result in the entire population getting infected in the span of a month or two. The point I was trying to make, was that for the 'open back up' crowd, they are arguing that the IFR is similar to the flu, and only vulnerable populations are really impacted. So they say we should open up and just keep vulnerable population in lockdown. But they are ignoring the implications of the R0 value in their argument. i.e. if the IFR is really as low as they think (and consequently, the infected population is as high as they think), then nothing short of a total lockdown (or very aggressive testing and contract tracing) would stop vulnerable populations from getting infected.
- greedo 7y ago
  Also, protecting the vulnerable sounds simple, but is incredibly difficult in practice.