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> There's already an economic race to the bottom dynamic among states in a lot of ways. Delegating things the federal government should provide for everyone to

by bhupy 7y ago

> There's already an economic race to the bottom dynamic among states in a lot of ways. Delegating things the federal government should provide for everyone to the states is going to make that a lot worse. Switzerland seems to be doing just fine, though.

justin66 7y ago
Is it? I honestly have no idea. Their system of government (and everything else) is radically different than ours in some pretty major respects that aren't going to change without us throwing out the constitution. Some of them are relevant to the post you replied to, for example how they handle taxation and citizenship.
- bhupy 7y ago
  Yes, in Switzerland nearly _everything_ is left to its states (Cantons). The Federal government is responsible for the army, currency, immigration/asylum, foreign relations, and customs. Everything else is the responsibility of the Cantons [1]. The net result is an "economic race to the bottom" that has now resulted in one of the lowest income taxes in the developed world, coupled with one of the highest standards of living. The Swiss government is largely influenced by 19th century American federalism. In fact, even naturalization is a Cantonal responsibility: "The State Secretariat for Migration examines whether applicants are integrated in the Swiss way of life, are familiar with Swiss customs and traditions, comply with the Swiss rule of law, and do not endanger Switzerland's internal or external security. The State Secretariat for Migration will then “green light” an applicant’s request to begin the naturalisation process but that does not mean citizenship is certain. Rather, cantons and municipalities have their own requirements that must be met."[2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantons_of_Switzerland#Constitutions_and_powers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantons_of_Switzerland#Constit... [2] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/becoming-a-citizen/29288376 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/becoming-a-citizen/29288376
  - wahern 7y ago
    Francis Fukuyama recently wrote an opinion piece where he argues that the dividing characteristic today between successful and broken states is trust in government, not the structure of government. Singapore is authoritarian-democratic, Switzerland hyper federalist, but both exhibit a political culture that voluntarily provides liberal permissions to the relevant government institutions. In the United States (nationally, and in most states) and many European countries, such a culture has long since eroded from its mid-20th century apex.
    - bhupy 7y ago
      I'd argue that in a lot of US States, the distrust is not in all government, just in the central Federal government. Consider that every State in the Union has taxpayer subsidized State university system, state police systems, fire departments, public libraries, etc. Maybe an optimal equilibrium is one where Vermont can be authoritarian-democratic and Texas can by hyper federalist. Singapore and Switzerland seem to work because they are small polities and everyone is on the same page. In Switzerland's hyper confederation, everyone seems to be on the same page: that nobody is on the same page :).
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - justin66 7y ago
        > I'd argue that in a lot of US States, the distrust is not in all government, just in the central Federal government. It's not like that kind of public opinion is uniform among the entire population of a state. Plenty of people in a state you might think of as not trusting the federal government, e.g. most states in the American south, have sizable minority populations that historically have depended heavily on the federal government's power for protection of their constitutional rights. Not to mention, the most meaningful political differences in the United States today are between rural and and urban areas.
        7y ago

by bhupy 7y ago

justin66 7y ago

Is it? I honestly have no idea. Their system of government (and everything else) is radically different than ours in some pretty major respects that aren't going to change without us throwing out the constitution. Some of them are relevant to the post you replied to, for example how they handle taxation and citizenship.

bhupy 7y ago
Yes, in Switzerland nearly _everything_ is left to its states (Cantons). The Federal government is responsible for the army, currency, immigration/asylum, foreign relations, and customs. Everything else is the responsibility of the Cantons [1]. The net result is an "economic race to the bottom" that has now resulted in one of the lowest income taxes in the developed world, coupled with one of the highest standards of living. The Swiss government is largely influenced by 19th century American federalism. In fact, even naturalization is a Cantonal responsibility: "The State Secretariat for Migration examines whether applicants are integrated in the Swiss way of life, are familiar with Swiss customs and traditions, comply with the Swiss rule of law, and do not endanger Switzerland's internal or external security. The State Secretariat for Migration will then “green light” an applicant’s request to begin the naturalisation process but that does not mean citizenship is certain. Rather, cantons and municipalities have their own requirements that must be met."[2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantons_of_Switzerland#Constitutions_and_powers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantons_of_Switzerland#Constit... [2] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/becoming-a-citizen/29288376 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/becoming-a-citizen/29288376
- wahern 7y ago
  Francis Fukuyama recently wrote an opinion piece where he argues that the dividing characteristic today between successful and broken states is trust in government, not the structure of government. Singapore is authoritarian-democratic, Switzerland hyper federalist, but both exhibit a political culture that voluntarily provides liberal permissions to the relevant government institutions. In the United States (nationally, and in most states) and many European countries, such a culture has long since eroded from its mid-20th century apex.
  - bhupy 7y ago
    I'd argue that in a lot of US States, the distrust is not in all government, just in the central Federal government. Consider that every State in the Union has taxpayer subsidized State university system, state police systems, fire departments, public libraries, etc. Maybe an optimal equilibrium is one where Vermont can be authoritarian-democratic and Texas can by hyper federalist. Singapore and Switzerland seem to work because they are small polities and everyone is on the same page. In Switzerland's hyper confederation, everyone seems to be on the same page: that nobody is on the same page :).
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - justin66 7y ago
      > I'd argue that in a lot of US States, the distrust is not in all government, just in the central Federal government. It's not like that kind of public opinion is uniform among the entire population of a state. Plenty of people in a state you might think of as not trusting the federal government, e.g. most states in the American south, have sizable minority populations that historically have depended heavily on the federal government's power for protection of their constitutional rights. Not to mention, the most meaningful political differences in the United States today are between rural and and urban areas.
      - 7y ago