6 ms·

A favourite trick in the UK is for scammers to stay on the line when you hang up, and play simulated noises for a dial tone and connection, then pretend to be y

A favourite trick in the UK is for scammers to stay on the line when you hang up, and play simulated noises for a dial tone and connection, then pretend to be your bank when you call the number on your card.

jeffdavis 7y ago
If you hang up, how does that help? Are you talking about them trying to make you think they hung up? If so, it sounds like a long-shot tactic, especially because everyone uses cell phones now.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  The most vulnerable population to fall for scams is seniors. Also the most likely population to still be using land lines.
  - bregma 7y ago
    Most seniors I know have a mobile phone. How else would they be able to show off pictures of their grandkids? Also, that's how hearing aids work these days.
    - outworlder 7y ago
      But they might still have landlines.
    - fortran77 7y ago
      My 87 year old mother can not figure out how to use a cell phone. I tried and tried.
- robjan 7y ago
  In the UK landlines almost always start with 01 or 02 so it's easy to identify who is using a landline. You can also go through the phone book (which only lists landlines) looking for "elderly" names. People who don't bother / know how to opt out of the phone book are probably easier targets as well.
cbg0 7y ago
I'm not sure I follow. If you've ended the call, and you call the bank number on your card, how exactly would the call get routed to the scammers?
- bluGill 7y ago
  It only works in the UK where the phone call only ends after both sides hang up. The idea is you can hang up go to a different room and resume the conversation. The results are this fraud is possible. I believe no other country has that feature.
  - acqq 7y ago
    > I believe no other country has that feature. I'm sure there are other European landline phone systems which behave the same. I don't know about the U.S.
    - cbg0 7y ago
      Definitely not the case for Romania. Even though I haven't used a landline in over a decade, if either party would hang up, the call would end.
  - lb1lf 7y ago
    We used to have this in Norway when I was a kid; I still remember when I found out by accident - it felt like I had been let in on some big secret.
    - Moru 7y ago
      In Sweden both sides had to hang up, not sure how it is now. My mother used it for kids prank calling. She just left it open until the parents came home and wanted to call, then she explained that their kid had been prank calling us.
  - bregma 7y ago
    Definitely used to be the case in Canada. The caller had to hang up: if the receiver hung up it took a (something like 20 second) timeout before the call would terminate. We did used to use that to move to another extension in our house. Note to kids: we used to have our phones anchored to the wall with these coiled ropes so you couldn't walk away with them To counter that, we had multiple phones in various rooms of the house. They also made the phones so big the wouldn't fit in your pocket as another way to prevent stealing them. They didn't have screens because the vacuum tubes drew too much current and they would get too hot when pressed to your ear.
flattone 7y ago
I vaguely remember a phone e experience where if the other person didn't hang up I was stuck with that connection. Glitchy landline behavior from the 90s?
uoaei 7y ago
How can they stay on the line if you hang up?
- ajb 7y ago
  Because they're not on a mobile. Landlines don't disconnect until both parties hang up.
  - alistairSH 7y ago
    Landlines [in the UK] don't disconnect until both parties hang up.
    - tialaramex 7y ago
      Not both parties, the caller. And there's a timeout which these days is set to about 2 seconds. Here's the BT Openreach (the last mile provider and thus de facto the supplier of landline telephone service to almost all of the UK) write-up for when it was reduced to 10 seconds in 2014. https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefings/downloads/wlr00314.pdf https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefings/down...
nrr 7y ago
A trick I learned to deal with this very thing was just to attempt to call the local time/weather number after getting my dial tone back. That said, with far-side supervision, I suspect that the call would actually time out after something like 20-30 seconds of either party hanging up. I'd just make it a habit to go put the kettle on and make some tea before placing another call. If the call doesn't time out, well, it's time to ask BT some hard questions as to why they're allowing that sort of nuisance on their telephone network. AT&T managed to get rid of it here just fine.
outworlder 7y ago
> A favourite trick in the UK is for scammers to stay on the line when you hang up, and play simulated noises for a dial tone and connection, then pretend to be your bank when you call the number on your card. Sure, but that only works for landlines. Is this still a common thing in the UK?
- grey-area 7y ago
  I haven't had one for 5 years but I think am in the minority. Many households need one for broadband as they can't get cable.
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    Most broadband "landlines" are not a real BT landline but instead one simulated by your broadband router (it's SIP on the other end). With SIP, once either you hang up or the other side hangs up the session is terminated and there is no way to recover it.
    - wrboyce 7y ago
      I would be extremely surprised if most UK “landlines” are actually SIP extensions. Do you have a source for this claim?
    - grey-area 7y ago
      As far as I'm aware BT still have normal landlines to most areas - the phones are separate from the router, they don't go through it first and even support old pulse dial phones.
Havoc 7y ago
Surely that doesn't work in the age of cellphones?
userbinator 7y ago
Interesting reading: https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/100268/does-hanging-up-on-a-uk-landline-call-not-terminate-the-connection https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/100268/does-han...

jeffdavis 7y ago

If you hang up, how does that help? Are you talking about them trying to make you think they hung up? If so, it sounds like a long-shot tactic, especially because everyone uses cell phones now.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago
The most vulnerable population to fall for scams is seniors. Also the most likely population to still be using land lines.
- bregma 7y ago
  Most seniors I know have a mobile phone. How else would they be able to show off pictures of their grandkids? Also, that's how hearing aids work these days.
  - outworlder 7y ago
    But they might still have landlines.
  - fortran77 7y ago
    My 87 year old mother can not figure out how to use a cell phone. I tried and tried.
robjan 7y ago
In the UK landlines almost always start with 01 or 02 so it's easy to identify who is using a landline. You can also go through the phone book (which only lists landlines) looking for "elderly" names. People who don't bother / know how to opt out of the phone book are probably easier targets as well.

cbg0 7y ago

I'm not sure I follow. If you've ended the call, and you call the bank number on your card, how exactly would the call get routed to the scammers?

bluGill 7y ago
It only works in the UK where the phone call only ends after both sides hang up. The idea is you can hang up go to a different room and resume the conversation. The results are this fraud is possible. I believe no other country has that feature.
- acqq 7y ago
  > I believe no other country has that feature. I'm sure there are other European landline phone systems which behave the same. I don't know about the U.S.
  - cbg0 7y ago
    Definitely not the case for Romania. Even though I haven't used a landline in over a decade, if either party would hang up, the call would end.
- lb1lf 7y ago
  We used to have this in Norway when I was a kid; I still remember when I found out by accident - it felt like I had been let in on some big secret.
  - Moru 7y ago
    In Sweden both sides had to hang up, not sure how it is now. My mother used it for kids prank calling. She just left it open until the parents came home and wanted to call, then she explained that their kid had been prank calling us.
- bregma 7y ago
  Definitely used to be the case in Canada. The caller had to hang up: if the receiver hung up it took a (something like 20 second) timeout before the call would terminate. We did used to use that to move to another extension in our house. Note to kids: we used to have our phones anchored to the wall with these coiled ropes so you couldn't walk away with them To counter that, we had multiple phones in various rooms of the house. They also made the phones so big the wouldn't fit in your pocket as another way to prevent stealing them. They didn't have screens because the vacuum tubes drew too much current and they would get too hot when pressed to your ear.

flattone 7y ago

I vaguely remember a phone e experience where if the other person didn't hang up I was stuck with that connection. Glitchy landline behavior from the 90s?

uoaei 7y ago

How can they stay on the line if you hang up?

ajb 7y ago
Because they're not on a mobile. Landlines don't disconnect until both parties hang up.
- alistairSH 7y ago
  Landlines [in the UK] don't disconnect until both parties hang up.
  - tialaramex 7y ago
    Not both parties, the caller. And there's a timeout which these days is set to about 2 seconds. Here's the BT Openreach (the last mile provider and thus de facto the supplier of landline telephone service to almost all of the UK) write-up for when it was reduced to 10 seconds in 2014. https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefings/downloads/wlr00314.pdf https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefings/down...

nrr 7y ago

A trick I learned to deal with this very thing was just to attempt to call the local time/weather number after getting my dial tone back. That said, with far-side supervision, I suspect that the call would actually time out after something like 20-30 seconds of either party hanging up. I'd just make it a habit to go put the kettle on and make some tea before placing another call. If the call doesn't time out, well, it's time to ask BT some hard questions as to why they're allowing that sort of nuisance on their telephone network. AT&T managed to get rid of it here just fine.

outworlder 7y ago

> A favourite trick in the UK is for scammers to stay on the line when you hang up, and play simulated noises for a dial tone and connection, then pretend to be your bank when you call the number on your card. Sure, but that only works for landlines. Is this still a common thing in the UK?

grey-area 7y ago
I haven't had one for 5 years but I think am in the minority. Many households need one for broadband as they can't get cable.
- Nextgrid 7y ago
  Most broadband "landlines" are not a real BT landline but instead one simulated by your broadband router (it's SIP on the other end). With SIP, once either you hang up or the other side hangs up the session is terminated and there is no way to recover it.
  - wrboyce 7y ago
    I would be extremely surprised if most UK “landlines” are actually SIP extensions. Do you have a source for this claim?
  - grey-area 7y ago
    As far as I'm aware BT still have normal landlines to most areas - the phones are separate from the router, they don't go through it first and even support old pulse dial phones.

Havoc 7y ago

Surely that doesn't work in the age of cellphones?

userbinator 7y ago

Interesting reading: https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/100268/does-hanging-up-on-a-uk-landline-call-not-terminate-the-connection https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/100268/does-han...