6 ms·

I really can't stand the trend to keep making things thinner - it's gotten to the point where it's hard to find a work laptop I can get through my company that

by munk-a 7y ago

I really can't stand the trend to keep making things thinner - it's gotten to the point where it's hard to find a work laptop I can get through my company that comes with an ethernet port. If we can miniaturize stuff so well then can't we miniaturize it all to spread components further apart in a predominantly empty but tall case so airflow stops being an issue?

diggan 7y ago
I got a Lenovo X1 Carbon that is pretty thin and have a adapter for Ethernet, good enough for me and doesn't seem to have any performance issues. The form factor of the X1 makes me really love it. But when it comes to smartphones, I agree. They are getting thinner and larger, possibly to make it easier to drop and break or something, because I sure don't get it. It's hard to find a good, reliable smartphone that is around 4 inches today so I can hold it without worry with one hand.
- PopeDotNinja 7y ago
  I have big gorilla hands and I can't really use my Pixel 3a one-handed. A smaller phone would be nice.
- epanchin 7y ago
  I have the carbon too, but I also have a Dell which is a similar thickness but with a drop down sprung Ethernet port. Annoying Lenovo couldn’t fit the same.
  - fbnlsr 7y ago
    Maybe because Dell has a patent on that port?
    - xnyan 7y ago
      HP laptops use spring ethernet port too, even very cheap ones.
laurentdc 7y ago
Thinner fits the general use case better probably, e.g. there's way more students who care about a laptop that can fit between textbooks than IT professionals who must have an Ethernet port on hand at all times. Also, sweet money from selling all sorts of adapters (I think by now I spent at least 1/3rd of what I paid my 2017 MBP on dongles, docks.. this one correctly turns on the display on resume, this one doesn't but passes 4k without hiccups, etc)
- hawski 7y ago
  But how many students but MacBook Pros?
  - simonklitj 7y ago
    Can only speak for Denmark, where I'm from, but I'd venture that at least 50% of students have MacBook Pros. This is simply based on personal experience though. I might be way off. This is for the last three years of High School equivalent. University varies a lot depending on your field.
bonestamp2 7y ago
I used to think apple was obsessed with thinness, but I think that's actually the byproduct of what they're actually obsessed with: weight. While they might seem like the same thing, and they are obviously related... I don't care so much about the change in thickness from an aesthetic standpoint, but I do appreciate that the latest generation of macbook pros are noticeably lighter in my hand and on my back. So, I can see one practical reason for doing it.
- monadic2 7y ago
  That’s all fine until they use this as an excuse to remove a drive, or a headphone port, or prevent you from changing the battery, and then refuse to admit they aren’t meeting the needs of their customers.
  - baq 7y ago
    The only thing that is above there needs of their customers is needs of their shareholders.
  - johncolanduoni 7y ago
    What makes you think it’s an excuse to remove those, as opposed to the reason they did so? What do you think their real motivation is?
    - monadic2 7y ago
      All Apple provides us is correlation, so it's entirely possible (likely even) that the removal was incidental and driven by competing internal needs (like removal of wires, progression towards thinness). Materially it doesn't matter at all what caused this because they don't offer phones with functionality people clearly desire that are otherwise commonplace. It'd be much nicer if they simply offered things like removable battery, headphone, etc, and articulated how this would affect the form of the phone, but that would affect other priorities that Apple has. It's not difficult to accept, even on this forum, that materially their massive profit margin hurts their product offering.
sneak 7y ago
Honest question: why do you need ethernet onboard a laptop? USB-C ethernet interface adapters are cheap; could you not simply get a few and leave them on the ends of the ethernet cables to which you regularly attach? These days, for most users (you and I included), very rarely if ever is wifi inadequate. If, for speed or security reasons physical ethernet is needed, the adapters are small and cheap. I don’t understand the dongle hate.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  Dongles are annoying for moving about and they are One More Thing to worry about.
  - munk-a 7y ago
    I'm also personally unimpressed with USB-C port stability, unlike USB-A connectors USB-C seems to have a lot of natural wiggle in it and the weight of dongles can wrench the cable out.
- mikepurvis 7y ago
  I'm on a Dell XPS now, and formerly a MBP 2015, so I haven't had a physical ethernet port in a really long time. I still miss it— I work at a robotics company, and a lot of my job revolves around the installer workflow (pxe, kexec, that kind of stuff), driver development (lasers, PLCs, and other devices that all speak Profinet and similar ethernet-based protocols), not to mention general fault investigation for when a robot "falls off the network" but can still be accessed over a wired last-ditch rescue interface. So yes, I have dongles at my desk and there are stashes of them around the office, but it's still a source of frustration when they go missing, don't work, etc. I know I'm a bit of a special case, but I would definitely still appreciate a computer that was 50% thicker with a proper ethernet port.
  - xnyan 7y ago
    My wife’s HP laptop has a spring loaded full sized jack that pops out. It adds no thickness and the laptop cost $300, there’s no ethernet jack on the Mac not because they can’t but they don’t want one.
dmix 7y ago
I keep a USB-c Ethernet plugged into my monitor which acts as a USB hub + uses a single cord to both power and connect the usb devices. It’s nice only having to plug one thing in when I start working with a monitor. I don’t need Ethernet when I’m on the go or browsing in bed. Like most people...
FalconSensei 7y ago
Thing is... most people don't use ethernet anymore, at least for notebooks. So it makes sense that your options are limited.
- xnyan 7y ago
  The thing is most people don’t use Macs or even personal computers for that matter anymore. It’s never been about a massive appeal product, it’s about meeting people’s needs. I think Apple remembers the good old days when they got rid of the CD ROM and everyone went from doubting it to patting them on the back and saying what a good job they did calling the trend. Even in 2020, a professional computer is not really professional IMO if it does not have an ethernet jack. Even my wife’s $300 cheapo HP laptop has a drop-down ethernet jack, it adds no thickness. There is no technical or form limiting reason not to have an ethernet jack.

by munk-a 7y ago

diggan 7y ago

I got a Lenovo X1 Carbon that is pretty thin and have a adapter for Ethernet, good enough for me and doesn't seem to have any performance issues. The form factor of the X1 makes me really love it. But when it comes to smartphones, I agree. They are getting thinner and larger, possibly to make it easier to drop and break or something, because I sure don't get it. It's hard to find a good, reliable smartphone that is around 4 inches today so I can hold it without worry with one hand.

PopeDotNinja 7y ago
I have big gorilla hands and I can't really use my Pixel 3a one-handed. A smaller phone would be nice.
epanchin 7y ago
I have the carbon too, but I also have a Dell which is a similar thickness but with a drop down sprung Ethernet port. Annoying Lenovo couldn’t fit the same.
- fbnlsr 7y ago
  Maybe because Dell has a patent on that port?
  - xnyan 7y ago
    HP laptops use spring ethernet port too, even very cheap ones.

laurentdc 7y ago

Thinner fits the general use case better probably, e.g. there's way more students who care about a laptop that can fit between textbooks than IT professionals who must have an Ethernet port on hand at all times. Also, sweet money from selling all sorts of adapters (I think by now I spent at least 1/3rd of what I paid my 2017 MBP on dongles, docks.. this one correctly turns on the display on resume, this one doesn't but passes 4k without hiccups, etc)

hawski 7y ago
But how many students but MacBook Pros?
- simonklitj 7y ago
  Can only speak for Denmark, where I'm from, but I'd venture that at least 50% of students have MacBook Pros. This is simply based on personal experience though. I might be way off. This is for the last three years of High School equivalent. University varies a lot depending on your field.

bonestamp2 7y ago

I used to think apple was obsessed with thinness, but I think that's actually the byproduct of what they're actually obsessed with: weight. While they might seem like the same thing, and they are obviously related... I don't care so much about the change in thickness from an aesthetic standpoint, but I do appreciate that the latest generation of macbook pros are noticeably lighter in my hand and on my back. So, I can see one practical reason for doing it.

monadic2 7y ago
That’s all fine until they use this as an excuse to remove a drive, or a headphone port, or prevent you from changing the battery, and then refuse to admit they aren’t meeting the needs of their customers.
- baq 7y ago
  The only thing that is above there needs of their customers is needs of their shareholders.
- johncolanduoni 7y ago
  What makes you think it’s an excuse to remove those, as opposed to the reason they did so? What do you think their real motivation is?
  - monadic2 7y ago
    All Apple provides us is correlation, so it's entirely possible (likely even) that the removal was incidental and driven by competing internal needs (like removal of wires, progression towards thinness). Materially it doesn't matter at all what caused this because they don't offer phones with functionality people clearly desire that are otherwise commonplace. It'd be much nicer if they simply offered things like removable battery, headphone, etc, and articulated how this would affect the form of the phone, but that would affect other priorities that Apple has. It's not difficult to accept, even on this forum, that materially their massive profit margin hurts their product offering.

sneak 7y ago

Honest question: why do you need ethernet onboard a laptop? USB-C ethernet interface adapters are cheap; could you not simply get a few and leave them on the ends of the ethernet cables to which you regularly attach? These days, for most users (you and I included), very rarely if ever is wifi inadequate. If, for speed or security reasons physical ethernet is needed, the adapters are small and cheap. I don’t understand the dongle hate.

bobthepanda 7y ago
Dongles are annoying for moving about and they are One More Thing to worry about.
- munk-a 7y ago
  I'm also personally unimpressed with USB-C port stability, unlike USB-A connectors USB-C seems to have a lot of natural wiggle in it and the weight of dongles can wrench the cable out.
mikepurvis 7y ago
I'm on a Dell XPS now, and formerly a MBP 2015, so I haven't had a physical ethernet port in a really long time. I still miss it— I work at a robotics company, and a lot of my job revolves around the installer workflow (pxe, kexec, that kind of stuff), driver development (lasers, PLCs, and other devices that all speak Profinet and similar ethernet-based protocols), not to mention general fault investigation for when a robot "falls off the network" but can still be accessed over a wired last-ditch rescue interface. So yes, I have dongles at my desk and there are stashes of them around the office, but it's still a source of frustration when they go missing, don't work, etc. I know I'm a bit of a special case, but I would definitely still appreciate a computer that was 50% thicker with a proper ethernet port.
- xnyan 7y ago
  My wife’s HP laptop has a spring loaded full sized jack that pops out. It adds no thickness and the laptop cost $300, there’s no ethernet jack on the Mac not because they can’t but they don’t want one.

dmix 7y ago

I keep a USB-c Ethernet plugged into my monitor which acts as a USB hub + uses a single cord to both power and connect the usb devices. It’s nice only having to plug one thing in when I start working with a monitor. I don’t need Ethernet when I’m on the go or browsing in bed. Like most people...

FalconSensei 7y ago

Thing is... most people don't use ethernet anymore, at least for notebooks. So it makes sense that your options are limited.

xnyan 7y ago
The thing is most people don’t use Macs or even personal computers for that matter anymore. It’s never been about a massive appeal product, it’s about meeting people’s needs. I think Apple remembers the good old days when they got rid of the CD ROM and everyone went from doubting it to patting them on the back and saying what a good job they did calling the trend. Even in 2020, a professional computer is not really professional IMO if it does not have an ethernet jack. Even my wife’s $300 cheapo HP laptop has a drop-down ethernet jack, it adds no thickness. There is no technical or form limiting reason not to have an ethernet jack.