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Does anyone really think that any retailer launches a competing product in a category without looking at all their supplier data? So, if cars are inevitably be

Does anyone really think that any retailer launches a competing product in a category without looking at all their supplier data? So, if cars are inevitably becoming computers with wheels, what's going to happen to insurance companies? The major weapon of underwriting is data, and a company like Tesla is going to have a huge advantage in data over external insurance companies. Is it really a societal good for big companies to control all of this data, or should the data belong to the consumer/owner/user? I suspect it's the latter which gives people the most choice and freedom by fostering the most competition.

balls187 6y ago
Insurance companies are already offering discounts for using their apps while in car.
- stcredzero 6y ago
  Insurance companies are already offering discounts for using their apps while in car. I was debating on whether I should include mention of these apps. Here's the thing about that: The data available to these apps is nothing compared to the data available to Tesla. Tesla can figure out how often you get close to bumping into something, exactly how far, how fast you were going, and what the lighting/weather conditions were like at the time. That data is orders of magnitude better than the stuff coming out of the app. It's very analogous to iOS app makers competing with in-house Apple iOS apps. It's hard to compete, when your competitor controls the APIs.
  - StillBored 6y ago
    All the things you name are available to a phone app as well. Particularly, if it has enough penetration to be in the vehicles near you. Local weather + data aggregation from all the insurance companies apps and suddenly about the only thing they don't have is whether you were looking at the road, and the condition of your tires and other vehicle specific metrics. Sure the GPS/accel data might be off a few percent vs the car but does that matter? (BTW, Assuming a deal with your credit card company, they probably can approximate your tire age too).
    - stcredzero 6y ago
      All the things you name are available to a phone app as well. Only 'kinda'. You might get 1 camera feed, and you can see what the weather report was for the area. Tesla has something like 8 camera feeds, and they can tell if visibility was compromised because the other car situated at 7-o'clock to the rear was in a building's deep shadow. The app could only kinda get that if one were lucky. suddenly about the only thing they don't have is whether you were looking at the road, and the condition of your tires and other vehicle specific metrics That and a lot more! Also, with far superior granularity, and with fewer data quality problems. (BTW, Assuming a deal with your credit card company, they probably can approximate your tire age too). Again, mostly. I would agree that the apps could compete. They're competing at a significant disadvantage, though.
  - balls187 6y ago
    I agree with your point. I think the insurance companies are doing what they can to compete but wont be able to match the platform builders offering. Perhaps they look at licensing data from other platforms like Ford, Yota, etc.
freepor 6y ago
There are insurance companies who already sell trackers that plug into your car's OBD-2 port and have onboard hardware so that the insurance company sees your acceleration, handling, sudden braking, times you drive, miles you drive, etc. Right now, very safe and low risk drivers can use these companies to get discounted insurance. Eventually, every safe driver willing to install these trackers will do so for the lower insurance rates, leaving a much higher risk pool with the non-tracking insurance plans, and it will become very expensive to not be tracked by your car insurance company.
- stcredzero 6y ago
  I know. So again here's the heart of my point: Even with the OBD-2 port, the data available to these apps is nothing compared to the data available to Tesla. Tesla can figure out how often you get close to bumping into something, exactly how far, how fast you were going, and what the lighting/weather conditions were like at the time. That data is orders of magnitude better than the stuff coming out of the app.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    Sure, but what's stopping any other car manufacturer from buying and using the same sensor kits? Look, I get that you can't get the same data with a 3rd-party kit but if you're an insurance company you're gonna be working with car manufacturers anyway.
    - stcredzero 6y ago
      Sure, but what's stopping any other car manufacturer from buying and using the same sensor kits? Nothing, though I'm guessing they will be far behind for a year or so even after they deploy. (Unless that team is super competent, and they have absolute management backing.) Look, I get that you can't get the same data with a 3rd-party kit but if you're an insurance company you're gonna be working with car manufacturers anyway. It completely changes the dynamic of the business. One won't be able to compete, except as a manufacturer partner, and not all manufacturers will be equal. It will limit choices to consumers, and very strongly drive consolidation. I'm not saying only Tesla will be able to do it. What I'm saying, is that the nature of the business will change massively, in a way where customers will wind up with fewer coices.
jonny_eh 6y ago
The difference is aggregate vs specific data. If insurance companies use the cars' data to change their policies in aggregate, there's no problem. Meaning, if they discover that cars of a particular brand have more accidents, they can raise premiums on owners of that brand of car. On the other hand, determining that YOU drive really fast, should NOT trigger a higher premium.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  It should absolutely trigger a higher premium if driving faster means higher losses. Otherwise the people driving slower are subsidizing the risk that the people driving faster are taking. How is that fair?
- yyy888sss 6y ago
  In the UK young people can get cheaper premiums if they install a tracker which monitors speed, driving patterns etc. They've had this for decades.

balls187 6y ago

Insurance companies are already offering discounts for using their apps while in car.

stcredzero 6y ago
Insurance companies are already offering discounts for using their apps while in car. I was debating on whether I should include mention of these apps. Here's the thing about that: The data available to these apps is nothing compared to the data available to Tesla. Tesla can figure out how often you get close to bumping into something, exactly how far, how fast you were going, and what the lighting/weather conditions were like at the time. That data is orders of magnitude better than the stuff coming out of the app. It's very analogous to iOS app makers competing with in-house Apple iOS apps. It's hard to compete, when your competitor controls the APIs.
- StillBored 6y ago
  All the things you name are available to a phone app as well. Particularly, if it has enough penetration to be in the vehicles near you. Local weather + data aggregation from all the insurance companies apps and suddenly about the only thing they don't have is whether you were looking at the road, and the condition of your tires and other vehicle specific metrics. Sure the GPS/accel data might be off a few percent vs the car but does that matter? (BTW, Assuming a deal with your credit card company, they probably can approximate your tire age too).
  - stcredzero 6y ago
    All the things you name are available to a phone app as well. Only 'kinda'. You might get 1 camera feed, and you can see what the weather report was for the area. Tesla has something like 8 camera feeds, and they can tell if visibility was compromised because the other car situated at 7-o'clock to the rear was in a building's deep shadow. The app could only kinda get that if one were lucky. suddenly about the only thing they don't have is whether you were looking at the road, and the condition of your tires and other vehicle specific metrics That and a lot more! Also, with far superior granularity, and with fewer data quality problems. (BTW, Assuming a deal with your credit card company, they probably can approximate your tire age too). Again, mostly. I would agree that the apps could compete. They're competing at a significant disadvantage, though.
- balls187 6y ago
  I agree with your point. I think the insurance companies are doing what they can to compete but wont be able to match the platform builders offering. Perhaps they look at licensing data from other platforms like Ford, Yota, etc.

freepor 6y ago

There are insurance companies who already sell trackers that plug into your car's OBD-2 port and have onboard hardware so that the insurance company sees your acceleration, handling, sudden braking, times you drive, miles you drive, etc. Right now, very safe and low risk drivers can use these companies to get discounted insurance. Eventually, every safe driver willing to install these trackers will do so for the lower insurance rates, leaving a much higher risk pool with the non-tracking insurance plans, and it will become very expensive to not be tracked by your car insurance company.

stcredzero 6y ago
I know. So again here's the heart of my point: Even with the OBD-2 port, the data available to these apps is nothing compared to the data available to Tesla. Tesla can figure out how often you get close to bumping into something, exactly how far, how fast you were going, and what the lighting/weather conditions were like at the time. That data is orders of magnitude better than the stuff coming out of the app.
- Spivak 6y ago
  Sure, but what's stopping any other car manufacturer from buying and using the same sensor kits? Look, I get that you can't get the same data with a 3rd-party kit but if you're an insurance company you're gonna be working with car manufacturers anyway.
  - stcredzero 6y ago
    Sure, but what's stopping any other car manufacturer from buying and using the same sensor kits? Nothing, though I'm guessing they will be far behind for a year or so even after they deploy. (Unless that team is super competent, and they have absolute management backing.) Look, I get that you can't get the same data with a 3rd-party kit but if you're an insurance company you're gonna be working with car manufacturers anyway. It completely changes the dynamic of the business. One won't be able to compete, except as a manufacturer partner, and not all manufacturers will be equal. It will limit choices to consumers, and very strongly drive consolidation. I'm not saying only Tesla will be able to do it. What I'm saying, is that the nature of the business will change massively, in a way where customers will wind up with fewer coices.

jonny_eh 6y ago

The difference is aggregate vs specific data. If insurance companies use the cars' data to change their policies in aggregate, there's no problem. Meaning, if they discover that cars of a particular brand have more accidents, they can raise premiums on owners of that brand of car. On the other hand, determining that YOU drive really fast, should NOT trigger a higher premium.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
It should absolutely trigger a higher premium if driving faster means higher losses. Otherwise the people driving slower are subsidizing the risk that the people driving faster are taking. How is that fair?
yyy888sss 6y ago
In the UK young people can get cheaper premiums if they install a tracker which monitors speed, driving patterns etc. They've had this for decades.