11 ms·

Remember when the WHO didn't recognize Taiwan as a sevreign nation? Obviously the WHO isn't solely objective.

by mrwesleycrusher 6y ago

pmiller2 6y ago
This has what to do with their medical and public health recommendations?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- deelowe 6y ago
  Taiwan data was being counted with China's. This means that many of the early safeguards Taiwan was taking to protect their country was overlooked as it's effectiveness didn't show up in the global trends reported by the WHO. In fact, when specifically questioned by the press on how Taiwan was so successful at containment and preventing the spread, the WHO leadership acted like they had never heard the term Taiwan before. For reference, Taiwan's handling of the pandemic has been nothing short of amazing. Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/taiwan/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/taiwan/
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    So has Newfoundland's response to the pandemic been extremely effective [0]. Where is Newfoundland's data being published by the WHO site? Here is what I was able to find as far as case statistics: https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200422-sitrep-93-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=35cf80d7_4 https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situati... No mention of Newfoundland in that document that I can find. --- [0]: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/covid19-newfoundland-labrador-update-april-23-1.5542270 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/covid19...
  - xster 6y ago
    Is that quantifiably true? There are the same number of deaths in Shanghai and Beijing as Taiwan and the population is about the same size while Shanghai and Beijing have much less "travel restriction" from Taiwan. Why should the WHO, an agency of the UN, make an extremely aggressive political and undemocratic move and special case Taiwan when only 14 of the 193 members of the UN have diplomatic relations with Taiwan and when it performed average vis a vis other Chinese provinces.
- isoskeles 6y ago
  It's evidence that the WHO is a political organization, and some of its recommendations, such as being against international travel bans, may be influenced by politics over public health.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    >It's evidence that the WHO is a political organization ... Granted. > and some of its recommendations, such as being against international travel bans, may be influenced by politics over public health. This is the part that's not proven.
    - Pils 6y ago
      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/health/world-health-breastfeeding-ecuador-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/health/world-health-breas... > American officials sought to water down the resolution by removing language that called on governments to “protect, promote and support breast-feeding” and another passage that called on policymakers to restrict the promotion of food products that many experts say can have deleterious effects on young children. > When that failed, they turned to threats, according to diplomats and government officials who took part in the discussions. Ecuador, which had planned to introduce the measure, was the first to find itself in the cross hairs. > The Americans were blunt: If Ecuador refused to drop the resolution, Washington would unleash punishing trade measures and withdraw crucial military aid. The Ecuadorean government quickly acquiesced. Importantly, however: > In the end, the Americans’ efforts were mostly unsuccessful. It was the Russians who ultimately stepped in to introduce the measure — and the Americans did not threaten them.
    - busymom0 6y ago
      They did ignore Taiwan's emails from December warning about human to human transmission and later claimed they never received anything from Taiwan.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Barrin92 6y ago
Neither does the US. Taiwan is only recognised by IIRC 12 natinos, mostly small island states. This has become another weird internet talking point as international recognition pretty much unanmiously switched to the PRC in the 1970s.
- umvi 6y ago
  Maybe formally, but Trump has implicitly recognized it[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Tsai_call https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Tsai_call
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    Pretty much all global institutions have informal or de-facto relationships with Taiwan, that's besides the point. Not recognizing Taiwan formally has been the position of just about any institution or country on the globe for 50 years.
    - nerfhammer 6y ago
      nitpick: it's been about 40 years. E.g., the US officially switched recognition to PRC in 1979.
- xupybd 6y ago
  It's the awkward way they one representative handled a question on Taiwan. Pretending he didn't hear the question. I think it speaks more to the unwillingness of a world health organisation to even discuss politically dangerous topics.
  - purerandomness 6y ago
    Here's a short clip of the interview for those who haven't seen it yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCFPFWsIPmM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCFPFWsIPmM
  - Barrin92 6y ago
garmaine 6y ago
Of course the WHO recognizes Thailand as a sovereign nation. Next question?
- switch007 6y ago
  They said “when”. Has there been a time when they haven’t?
  - garmaine 6y ago
    Taiwan != Thailand.
xster 6y ago
> recognize Taiwan as a sevreign nation This statement shows the power of western media. Yes the WHO doesn't. Neither does any other political entity in the world. Neither the US, nor the 14 of 193 UN members that has diplomatic relations with the ROC, nor does "Taiwan" itself recognize Taiwan as a sovereign nation. Even the most pro-US pro-independence party in Taiwan, the DPP, does not recognize Taiwan as a sovereign nation. According to Taiwan, Taiwan is a province of the ROC which includes the mainland and the present country of Mongolia. And you would want the health agency of the UN to be the first in the world to spearhead tectonic geopolitical changes because the corporate media tells you so?
- busymom0 6y ago
  Taiwan emailed WHO in December warning about China lying about the human-to-human transmission not happening and WHO refused to acknowledge Taiwan's reports. Then on January 14th, WHO tweeted saying human to human transmission was not possible. Then when it came out that they were wrong, they claimed Taiwan never emailed them. Taiwan brought receipts with the emails. Also the WHO spokesman went on an interview with Hong Kong media and refused to even answer a question about Taiwan, then hung up the call after pretending to not hear the question. This is not corporate media telling me so (don't even know why you would claim that). This is plain facts on video and email available for everyone to see.
  - xster 6y ago
    Seems like a goalpost shift since I was just responding to your claim about "Taiwan sovereignty". And since you brought up the December 31st email, that only amplifies my point about corporate media if you formed your opinion on editorials obfuscating the primary source rather than the primary source itself. Here's the actual email from Taiwan https://twitter.com/mohw_taiwan/status/1248915057188024320 https://twitter.com/mohw_taiwan/status/1248915057188024320 "News resources today indicate that at least seven atypical pneumonia cases were reported in Wuhan, CHINA. Their health authorities replied to the media that the cases were believed not SARS; however the samples are still under examination, and cases have been isolated for treatment. I would greatly appreciate it if you have relevant information to share with us. Thank you very much in advance for your attention to this matter." It's so embarrassingly not "a warning" from Taiwan that Taiwan has been busy deleting the original email from their press release archives and rerouting permalinks to their emails (still available on their tweet at.cdc.tw/23iq82) to a further obfuscating rebuttal. Meanwhile, people who just read corporate media headlines and don't bother with primary sources or critical thinking goes around telling people "Taiwan emailed WHO in December warning about China lying about the human-to-human transmission".
dang 6y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22956536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22956536.

Remember when the WHO didn't recognize Taiwan as a sevreign nation? Obviously the WHO isn't solely objective.

pmiller2 6y ago

This has what to do with their medical and public health recommendations?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
deelowe 6y ago
Taiwan data was being counted with China's. This means that many of the early safeguards Taiwan was taking to protect their country was overlooked as it's effectiveness didn't show up in the global trends reported by the WHO. In fact, when specifically questioned by the press on how Taiwan was so successful at containment and preventing the spread, the WHO leadership acted like they had never heard the term Taiwan before. For reference, Taiwan's handling of the pandemic has been nothing short of amazing. Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/taiwan/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/taiwan/
- pmiller2 6y ago
  So has Newfoundland's response to the pandemic been extremely effective [0]. Where is Newfoundland's data being published by the WHO site? Here is what I was able to find as far as case statistics: https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200422-sitrep-93-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=35cf80d7_4 https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situati... No mention of Newfoundland in that document that I can find. --- [0]: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/covid19-newfoundland-labrador-update-april-23-1.5542270 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/covid19...
- xster 6y ago
  Is that quantifiably true? There are the same number of deaths in Shanghai and Beijing as Taiwan and the population is about the same size while Shanghai and Beijing have much less "travel restriction" from Taiwan. Why should the WHO, an agency of the UN, make an extremely aggressive political and undemocratic move and special case Taiwan when only 14 of the 193 members of the UN have diplomatic relations with Taiwan and when it performed average vis a vis other Chinese provinces.
isoskeles 6y ago
It's evidence that the WHO is a political organization, and some of its recommendations, such as being against international travel bans, may be influenced by politics over public health.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  >It's evidence that the WHO is a political organization ... Granted. > and some of its recommendations, such as being against international travel bans, may be influenced by politics over public health. This is the part that's not proven.
  - Pils 6y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/health/world-health-breastfeeding-ecuador-trump.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/08/health/world-health-breas... > American officials sought to water down the resolution by removing language that called on governments to “protect, promote and support breast-feeding” and another passage that called on policymakers to restrict the promotion of food products that many experts say can have deleterious effects on young children. > When that failed, they turned to threats, according to diplomats and government officials who took part in the discussions. Ecuador, which had planned to introduce the measure, was the first to find itself in the cross hairs. > The Americans were blunt: If Ecuador refused to drop the resolution, Washington would unleash punishing trade measures and withdraw crucial military aid. The Ecuadorean government quickly acquiesced. Importantly, however: > In the end, the Americans’ efforts were mostly unsuccessful. It was the Russians who ultimately stepped in to introduce the measure — and the Americans did not threaten them.
  - busymom0 6y ago
    They did ignore Taiwan's emails from December warning about human to human transmission and later claimed they never received anything from Taiwan.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Barrin92 6y ago

Neither does the US. Taiwan is only recognised by IIRC 12 natinos, mostly small island states. This has become another weird internet talking point as international recognition pretty much unanmiously switched to the PRC in the 1970s.

umvi 6y ago
Maybe formally, but Trump has implicitly recognized it[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Tsai_call https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Tsai_call
- Barrin92 6y ago
  Pretty much all global institutions have informal or de-facto relationships with Taiwan, that's besides the point. Not recognizing Taiwan formally has been the position of just about any institution or country on the globe for 50 years.
  - nerfhammer 6y ago
    nitpick: it's been about 40 years. E.g., the US officially switched recognition to PRC in 1979.
xupybd 6y ago
It's the awkward way they one representative handled a question on Taiwan. Pretending he didn't hear the question. I think it speaks more to the unwillingness of a world health organisation to even discuss politically dangerous topics.
- purerandomness 6y ago
  Here's a short clip of the interview for those who haven't seen it yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCFPFWsIPmM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCFPFWsIPmM
- Barrin92 6y ago

garmaine 6y ago

Of course the WHO recognizes Thailand as a sovereign nation. Next question?

switch007 6y ago
They said “when”. Has there been a time when they haven’t?
- garmaine 6y ago
  Taiwan != Thailand.

xster 6y ago

> recognize Taiwan as a sevreign nation This statement shows the power of western media. Yes the WHO doesn't. Neither does any other political entity in the world. Neither the US, nor the 14 of 193 UN members that has diplomatic relations with the ROC, nor does "Taiwan" itself recognize Taiwan as a sovereign nation. Even the most pro-US pro-independence party in Taiwan, the DPP, does not recognize Taiwan as a sovereign nation. According to Taiwan, Taiwan is a province of the ROC which includes the mainland and the present country of Mongolia. And you would want the health agency of the UN to be the first in the world to spearhead tectonic geopolitical changes because the corporate media tells you so?

busymom0 6y ago
Taiwan emailed WHO in December warning about China lying about the human-to-human transmission not happening and WHO refused to acknowledge Taiwan's reports. Then on January 14th, WHO tweeted saying human to human transmission was not possible. Then when it came out that they were wrong, they claimed Taiwan never emailed them. Taiwan brought receipts with the emails. Also the WHO spokesman went on an interview with Hong Kong media and refused to even answer a question about Taiwan, then hung up the call after pretending to not hear the question. This is not corporate media telling me so (don't even know why you would claim that). This is plain facts on video and email available for everyone to see.
- xster 6y ago
  Seems like a goalpost shift since I was just responding to your claim about "Taiwan sovereignty". And since you brought up the December 31st email, that only amplifies my point about corporate media if you formed your opinion on editorials obfuscating the primary source rather than the primary source itself. Here's the actual email from Taiwan https://twitter.com/mohw_taiwan/status/1248915057188024320 https://twitter.com/mohw_taiwan/status/1248915057188024320 "News resources today indicate that at least seven atypical pneumonia cases were reported in Wuhan, CHINA. Their health authorities replied to the media that the cases were believed not SARS; however the samples are still under examination, and cases have been isolated for treatment. I would greatly appreciate it if you have relevant information to share with us. Thank you very much in advance for your attention to this matter." It's so embarrassingly not "a warning" from Taiwan that Taiwan has been busy deleting the original email from their press release archives and rerouting permalinks to their emails (still available on their tweet at.cdc.tw/23iq82) to a further obfuscating rebuttal. Meanwhile, people who just read corporate media headlines and don't bother with primary sources or critical thinking goes around telling people "Taiwan emailed WHO in December warning about China lying about the human-to-human transmission".

dang 6y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22956536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22956536.