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On the other hand, Poland and Ukraine are currently going down the path of forming a totalitarian regime, so I'm not sure if this holds as much in practise.

• caskstrength 7y ago
  Can you elaborate regarding "totalitarian regime" in Ukraine? I don't like our current president and didn't vote for him, but I don't see anything totalitarian about him.
  • zaarn 7y ago
    Mostly blocking the EU from doing anything about Poland, which is deep in there, and heading there itself (and Poland blocking the EU from doing anything about that). It's not as bad as poland yet but it's getting there, slowly.
    • caskstrength 7y ago
      Sorry but it is very hard to understand anything in your comment. Ukraine is blocking EU from doing something about Poland? How? Ukraine is not in EU and can't block anything. Also, it seems you are not willing to expand on "getting there"...
• aivisol 7y ago
  Does Poland implement surveillance of their citizens in any excessive way? Just asking, as I do not know. The fact that the government is right-wing alone does not automatically mean it is going down the path of totalitarianism.
  • zaarn 7y ago
    Poland prevents the opposition from being able to take part in the government and pursues minority groups (political or otherwise), a totalitarian government doesn't require surveillance but I do recall from some newsreport some time ago that they approved quite wide ranging powers to the police.
    • aivisol 7y ago
      > prevents the opposition from being able to take part in the government This is definitely not specific to Poland, and unfortunately very typical across entire political spectrum and countries. I cannot quickly recall any European country where opposition is given meaningful part in government. > totalitarian government doesn't require surveillance I might disagree with you on this. That is what actually is very much required. As said, if you take away dislike for left or right and look from politically neutral point of view, you can see that power corrupts politicians regardless of their affiliations.
  • stereolambda 7y ago
    I'd say Poland is currently more at the fairly advanced stage of legal decomposition. The ruling group seized control over judiciary (the Constitutional Tribunal, controlling judges to the large extent). In the present crisis the legal foundations for everything that happens are very loose, with new ordinances interpreted ad hoc with the police's discretion or Prime Minister's Power Point presentations. The there's the controversy around organizing elections in May. The enduring legitimization of power can erode even further. I would not call that totalitarianism, more like moving fast and breaking things, with no clear knowledge where they're going. The government is trying to avoid visibly mistreating anyone (aside from lots of verbal abuse on state media), they just want to do whatever they want. As to the longer term effects of such tendencies, I leave it to the reader's judgment. As to surveillance, it was dug up by NGOs that provincial government offices are collecting cell network localization data on quarantined people. Apparently the emergency statute lets them do it even for everyone in an "anonymized" fashion.