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> why should it cost $3000 to have an MD do it? Let me suggest you fire-up a spreadsheet and start to calculate the cost structures surrounding healthcare in t

> why should it cost $3000 to have an MD do it? Let me suggest you fire-up a spreadsheet and start to calculate the cost structures surrounding healthcare in the US. I don't think you have enough information yet to fully understand the subject enough to answer the question you posed. I'll suggest you model something like a team conducting surgery at a mid size hospital. You have to model the cost structure each person in that room is subjected to. Three simple items are the cost of their education, malpractice insurance and taxes. The next step is to estimate the number of people who support that team within that hospital. From administration to nurses and janitors. Add to that external services such as labs. Now calculate the equipment costs. You could dig deeper and understand the regulatory costs, taxation and liability equipment manufacturers are subjected to. Interesting point to note: The Trump administration had to guarantee protection from liability before anyone was willing to make even something as simple as an N95 mask for use in hospitals. Now calculate the cost structure for the hospital. Again, regulatory, liability/malpractice, taxation, etc. If the ambulance service is independent, add them to the exercise. If you run through the above exercise you will actually be surprised that it only costs $3,000 for an MD to perform a procedure. Notice insurance isn't anywhere in these calculation. Health insurance is an easy to point to evil, yet it is perhaps the most insignificant portion of the cost matrix that drives the cost of healthcare in the US. In fact, health insurance is NOT a driver, it's a symptom. You cannot fix our medical system by manipulating insurance. If the costs are high, care will be expensive. If the costs are lower, care will become more affordable. And this will drive insurance costs down as a result. Insurance isn't the cause, it's the effect. Remember that next time you hear a politician claim that they can improve things by screwing with insurance. They are lying to you. Don't allow that to happen. Be informed.

fzeroracer 7y ago
Logically this may make sense, but in reality it does not. Other countries with more sane healthcare systems have costs that are fractional compared to ours despite having the exact same costs you mention. If the equipment is the same, the admin overhead is the same and the education is the same, then that leaves only one real difference between us and other countries. And that's our Byzantine insurance system.
- Scarblac 7y ago
  Education is also vastly more expensive in the US than elsewhere, as is malpractice insurance (and everything legal). But the most striking difference is that everything is for profit. Health care.
- robomartin 7y ago
  > despite having the exact same costs you mention Exact same costs? Surely you are joking. Costs, regulatory overhead, education and taxes are different everywhere. My wife pays tens of thousands of dollars per year in malpractice insurance...and she isn't even at the top of the scale in terms of these costs. The cost of education? An MD can graduate with anywhere from $300K and more in debt. And lawsuits? Show me a place on earth where attorneys will go after anyone, medical industry or not, as quickly, easily and violently as they do in the US? Show me a place on earth where the government guarantees student loans to the extent that university costs are bloated to the point of creating financial slavery for graduates. Show me a place on earth where doctors have to order a pile of unnecessary tests in order to protect themselves from being sued. Show me a place on earth where developing the simplest medical device costs tens of millions of dollars in regulatory fees alone (if you are lucky). Show me a place on earth where bringing a drug to market comes with potentially billions of dollars in regulatory costs. Show me a place on earth where a manufacturer of N95 masks and gowns is not allowed to supply them to hospitals during an emergency due to regulatory burdens, the fear of lawsuits and has to demand immunity from the president of the country before they are able to do so. I tried to develop a relatively simple hearing device to help people who suffer from SSD (Single Side Deafness). We have someone in the family with this condition. I designed and built a device for her. She loved it. I then looked into going to market with it. The costs would run into the tens of millions of dollars (or more). There was no way to take that leap. And that doesn't include protecting from or fighting the inevitable lawsuits. No, nothing is "the exact same". And that's my point. Unless you pull-up a spreadsheet and analyze the cost structure you will never understand why healthcare costs what it does in the US. It has nothing to do with insurance, or profit, or greed or any of the nonsense ideas being floated around --particularly by politicians who just want to manipulate the audience for votes. This is a simple equation: If you want to lower consumer costs you have to lower the cost structure driving the process and resources necessary to deliver the goods and services they receive. I would urge you not to form opinions as you have until and unless you have taken the time to truly understand the details of the matter, which is to say: Analyze the cost structure tree down to a good level of granularity and then see what you would change in order to reduce consumer costs. Insurance will not be on that list.

fzeroracer 7y ago

Logically this may make sense, but in reality it does not. Other countries with more sane healthcare systems have costs that are fractional compared to ours despite having the exact same costs you mention. If the equipment is the same, the admin overhead is the same and the education is the same, then that leaves only one real difference between us and other countries. And that's our Byzantine insurance system.

Scarblac 7y ago
Education is also vastly more expensive in the US than elsewhere, as is malpractice insurance (and everything legal). But the most striking difference is that everything is for profit. Health care.
robomartin 7y ago
> despite having the exact same costs you mention Exact same costs? Surely you are joking. Costs, regulatory overhead, education and taxes are different everywhere. My wife pays tens of thousands of dollars per year in malpractice insurance...and she isn't even at the top of the scale in terms of these costs. The cost of education? An MD can graduate with anywhere from $300K and more in debt. And lawsuits? Show me a place on earth where attorneys will go after anyone, medical industry or not, as quickly, easily and violently as they do in the US? Show me a place on earth where the government guarantees student loans to the extent that university costs are bloated to the point of creating financial slavery for graduates. Show me a place on earth where doctors have to order a pile of unnecessary tests in order to protect themselves from being sued. Show me a place on earth where developing the simplest medical device costs tens of millions of dollars in regulatory fees alone (if you are lucky). Show me a place on earth where bringing a drug to market comes with potentially billions of dollars in regulatory costs. Show me a place on earth where a manufacturer of N95 masks and gowns is not allowed to supply them to hospitals during an emergency due to regulatory burdens, the fear of lawsuits and has to demand immunity from the president of the country before they are able to do so. I tried to develop a relatively simple hearing device to help people who suffer from SSD (Single Side Deafness). We have someone in the family with this condition. I designed and built a device for her. She loved it. I then looked into going to market with it. The costs would run into the tens of millions of dollars (or more). There was no way to take that leap. And that doesn't include protecting from or fighting the inevitable lawsuits. No, nothing is "the exact same". And that's my point. Unless you pull-up a spreadsheet and analyze the cost structure you will never understand why healthcare costs what it does in the US. It has nothing to do with insurance, or profit, or greed or any of the nonsense ideas being floated around --particularly by politicians who just want to manipulate the audience for votes. This is a simple equation: If you want to lower consumer costs you have to lower the cost structure driving the process and resources necessary to deliver the goods and services they receive. I would urge you not to form opinions as you have until and unless you have taken the time to truly understand the details of the matter, which is to say: Analyze the cost structure tree down to a good level of granularity and then see what you would change in order to reduce consumer costs. Insurance will not be on that list.