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That's an attractive thought, but I'm less than convinced it's true. For example, I doubt there's much scientific evidence behind Sweden's zero-tolerance drug

That's an attractive thought, but I'm less than convinced it's true. For example, I doubt there's much scientific evidence behind Sweden's zero-tolerance drug policy that literally equates heroin with cannabis [1], or their policy of criminalizing all sex work [2], with the admittedly unusual twist of making buying, not selling, illegal. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Sweden [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden#Current_legal_status https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden#Current...

claudiawerner 7y ago
> with the admittedly unusual twist of making buying, not selling, illegal. The twist is probably based on the supposition that for selling to be illegal would mean endangering the the lives of sex workers, who (I assume, as the reasoning goes) are likely to be financially vulnerable. When selling is illegal, there is more risk for the person rendering the services.
- valuearb 7y ago
  When buying is illegal, it still imposes risks on sex workers. First, it hurts their income, meaning fewer sex workers are available, meaning it’s more likely victims will be coerced. Those who participate willingly can be put at risk from their customers when those customers are prosecuted.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  A concern for the lives or welfare of sex workers may be among the points used to sell the Nordic model but based on the Norwegian experience they don’t actually care about them. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/05/amnesty-international-publishes-policy-and-research-on-protection-of-sex-workers-rights/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/05/amnesty-inter... > “If a customer is bad you need to manage it yourself to the end. You only call the police if you think you are going to die. If you call the police, you lose everything.” > --Sex worker in Norway > Amnesty International heard how some sex workers who have reported violence to the police in Norway have been evicted from their homes or deported as a result of engaging with the police. > Under Norway’s laws, sex workers are at risk of forced evictions as their landlords can be prosecuted for renting property to them if they sell sex there. > A representative of a Norwegian sex workers’ rights organization explained: “If landlords don’t evict, the police will launch a criminal case against them...The police are encouraging landlords to take the law into their own hands and enforce it themselves.” > People who do sex work are also unable to work together for safety, or hire third party support like security, as this would likely qualify as ‘promotion of prostitution’ under the law.
missedthecue 7y ago
Just because a legal system places two different things in the same category doesn't mean they're saying they are equal. For instance, in many states, it is both a felony to steal something worth $300 and commit murder. No one on the planet would say they are equal. In the same way, I doubt there are any legislators in Sweden who say that cannibis and heroin are scientifically equal. They're just classified the same for legal purposes.
- nkozyra 7y ago
  But unless I'm reading this wrong, the penalties are equal for dealing either drug. That doesn't match your analogy, where the two crimes - while both classified as felonies - have radically sentencing guidelines.
  - htfu 7y ago
    You're not reading it wrong, however what they're saying is incorrect.
- fiblye 7y ago
  >For instance, in many states, it is both a felony to steal something worth $300 and commit murder. No one on the planet would say they are equal. Nobody is. It's like saying stealing and murder shouldn't both be considered crimes because they're so different. Felonies are just crimes that are considered more serious than lower crimes (misdemeanors)--there are loads of grade and classifications within that spectrum. Felonies tied to monetary values are generally written when $X monetary value is a large amount. $300 could've easily been a full month's rent a few decades back, so it was written as a serious offense. The problem is the law is incredibly slow to update with the times.
htfu 7y ago
As far as scheduling goes that basically mirrors the US and UN. Those categories aren't "levels of danger", but whether something has accepted medical use. That will always vary country to country - in the UK diacetylmorphine is medicine, despite being highest schedule. And poppy straw is class A just as fentanyl. Does that make it correct to say they are "literally equated"? That's absurd. (Not saying there aren't very dumb things about the national anti-harm reduction approach, but the scheduling isn't exactly unique internationally, nor really an aspect of what makes the system a massive mess). Sex work is not criminalized, as you yourself point out.
kqr 7y ago
There are exceptions to that general approach, of course. Even Swedish politicians need to be elected by popular vote, and this requires some amount of people-pleasing, along with the terrible consequences of that.

claudiawerner 7y ago

> with the admittedly unusual twist of making buying, not selling, illegal. The twist is probably based on the supposition that for selling to be illegal would mean endangering the the lives of sex workers, who (I assume, as the reasoning goes) are likely to be financially vulnerable. When selling is illegal, there is more risk for the person rendering the services.

valuearb 7y ago
When buying is illegal, it still imposes risks on sex workers. First, it hurts their income, meaning fewer sex workers are available, meaning it’s more likely victims will be coerced. Those who participate willingly can be put at risk from their customers when those customers are prosecuted.
barry-cotter 7y ago
A concern for the lives or welfare of sex workers may be among the points used to sell the Nordic model but based on the Norwegian experience they don’t actually care about them. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/05/amnesty-international-publishes-policy-and-research-on-protection-of-sex-workers-rights/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/05/amnesty-inter... > “If a customer is bad you need to manage it yourself to the end. You only call the police if you think you are going to die. If you call the police, you lose everything.” > --Sex worker in Norway > Amnesty International heard how some sex workers who have reported violence to the police in Norway have been evicted from their homes or deported as a result of engaging with the police. > Under Norway’s laws, sex workers are at risk of forced evictions as their landlords can be prosecuted for renting property to them if they sell sex there. > A representative of a Norwegian sex workers’ rights organization explained: “If landlords don’t evict, the police will launch a criminal case against them...The police are encouraging landlords to take the law into their own hands and enforce it themselves.” > People who do sex work are also unable to work together for safety, or hire third party support like security, as this would likely qualify as ‘promotion of prostitution’ under the law.

missedthecue 7y ago

Just because a legal system places two different things in the same category doesn't mean they're saying they are equal. For instance, in many states, it is both a felony to steal something worth $300 and commit murder. No one on the planet would say they are equal. In the same way, I doubt there are any legislators in Sweden who say that cannibis and heroin are scientifically equal. They're just classified the same for legal purposes.

nkozyra 7y ago
But unless I'm reading this wrong, the penalties are equal for dealing either drug. That doesn't match your analogy, where the two crimes - while both classified as felonies - have radically sentencing guidelines.
- htfu 7y ago
  You're not reading it wrong, however what they're saying is incorrect.
fiblye 7y ago
>For instance, in many states, it is both a felony to steal something worth $300 and commit murder. No one on the planet would say they are equal. Nobody is. It's like saying stealing and murder shouldn't both be considered crimes because they're so different. Felonies are just crimes that are considered more serious than lower crimes (misdemeanors)--there are loads of grade and classifications within that spectrum. Felonies tied to monetary values are generally written when $X monetary value is a large amount. $300 could've easily been a full month's rent a few decades back, so it was written as a serious offense. The problem is the law is incredibly slow to update with the times.

htfu 7y ago

As far as scheduling goes that basically mirrors the US and UN. Those categories aren't "levels of danger", but whether something has accepted medical use. That will always vary country to country - in the UK diacetylmorphine is medicine, despite being highest schedule. And poppy straw is class A just as fentanyl. Does that make it correct to say they are "literally equated"? That's absurd. (Not saying there aren't very dumb things about the national anti-harm reduction approach, but the scheduling isn't exactly unique internationally, nor really an aspect of what makes the system a massive mess). Sex work is not criminalized, as you yourself point out.

kqr 7y ago

There are exceptions to that general approach, of course. Even Swedish politicians need to be elected by popular vote, and this requires some amount of people-pleasing, along with the terrible consequences of that.