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That’s a very depressing take. Are there any scenarios where it’s not true? What if I’m enjoying what I’m doing? What if I like my coworkers?

by tra3 7y ago

vkou 7y ago
My landlord enjoys me as a tenant, but he still raises rent every year. Because he charges what the market will bear.
- samcheng 7y ago
  A wise landlord would lag the market a bit. A good tenant is worth more than an average one, and vacancy is expensive.
  - drdeadringer 7y ago
    I "think" I have a wise landlord. Either way, I hope for a wise one next time around.
- groby_b 7y ago
  And yet, you stay in your apartment, even though there are cheaper apartments. I.e. money is far from the only factor motivating you. You have a number of items that matter to you, money being one of them, that lead you to choose. The same is true for jobs. What you work on matters. Who your team is matters. What your leadership does or doesn't do matters.
  - karatestomp 7y ago
    > And yet, you stay in your apartment, even though there are cheaper apartments. > I.e. money is far from the only factor motivating you. Transaction costs are still money (or equivalent). Same for risk.
  - drdeadringer 7y ago
    > And yet, you stay in your apartment, even though there are cheaper apartments. How long until you recover the financial costs of moving given the cheaper rent? Let's forget the stress and emotions and logistics of moving.
kawfey 7y ago
Some of my coworkers brought up the story of NASA's renegade "Pirate Paradigm" that upset the status quo and busted through bureaucratic barriers before Agile was in vogue. [0] It's a true story of a group of young engineers that created a new system for mission control that would enable missions for years to come, while the thought of it was lambasted by management. But one quote that popped out to me was: > By taking action that challenged the established culture of their organization, the Pirates innovated new mission control capabilities for NASA, resulting in the group’s first project, Real-Time Data Systems (RTDS), which took a year’s worth of off-hours time to create. >>>>Which took a year's worth of off-hours time to create. So the team performed this groundbreaking work with no extra pay, on top of their other duties. This was construed to be inspirational among my coworkers who brought it up. I can see it. It is really awesome, and I bet those engineers felt like they were on top of the world. But to me, this is almost crazy to think that - in today's world - working for a large business the size of NASA that you wouldn't be fairly compensated while doing such immensely valuable work far above your personal scope of duty - even if you have the best coworkers or love your work. Sure, in several industries this happens all the time (especially startups, where founders perform immense amounts of work with no pay with the hope of hitting gold), but in the big corporate, government, and defense contracting worlds this is not only discouraged, but often disallowed. [0] https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/how-a-group-of-nasa-renegades-transformed-mission-control/ https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/how-a-group-of-nasa-rene...
- tra3 7y ago
  What a great counter example. Very inspiring, thank you for bringing it up. I'm having a tough time elucidating and expressing my feelings on this subject. I've gone through burnout, which was largely self inflicted tbh, with silent approval of management.. I feel like the parent poster, but I don't want to. I guess I'm struggling with the notion that employee-employer relationship is zero sum. Hobbies don't typically yield direct monetary benefits, yet I still partake. I dont't think this is going anywhere, I'm just thinking out loud.
- nathan_compton 7y ago
  NASA isn't a private corporation. In that scenario, compensation is a practical reality, but there isn't any profound reason to not be invested in your job. In the private sector your job is nothing more than making profit for your boss. If, for some reason, you did something on your own initiative that made the world a better place and your boss didn't profit from it, they should be mad at you for skipping a chance for them to make money. Consequently, the only rational thing is to give them as little value for as much compensation as possible.
drdeadringer 7y ago
You can enjoy what you're doing. You can like your coworkers. At the same time, your boss(es) can be from hell. What is or isn't a "depressing take" now mushrooms into a further discussion.

That’s a very depressing take. Are there any scenarios where it’s not true? What if I’m enjoying what I’m doing? What if I like my coworkers?

by tra3 7y ago

That’s a very depressing take. Are there any scenarios where it’s not true? What if I’m enjoying what I’m doing? What if I like my coworkers?

vkou 7y ago

My landlord enjoys me as a tenant, but he still raises rent every year. Because he charges what the market will bear.

samcheng 7y ago
A wise landlord would lag the market a bit. A good tenant is worth more than an average one, and vacancy is expensive.
- drdeadringer 7y ago
  I "think" I have a wise landlord. Either way, I hope for a wise one next time around.
groby_b 7y ago
And yet, you stay in your apartment, even though there are cheaper apartments. I.e. money is far from the only factor motivating you. You have a number of items that matter to you, money being one of them, that lead you to choose. The same is true for jobs. What you work on matters. Who your team is matters. What your leadership does or doesn't do matters.
- karatestomp 7y ago
  > And yet, you stay in your apartment, even though there are cheaper apartments. > I.e. money is far from the only factor motivating you. Transaction costs are still money (or equivalent). Same for risk.
- drdeadringer 7y ago
  > And yet, you stay in your apartment, even though there are cheaper apartments. How long until you recover the financial costs of moving given the cheaper rent? Let's forget the stress and emotions and logistics of moving.

kawfey 7y ago

Some of my coworkers brought up the story of NASA's renegade "Pirate Paradigm" that upset the status quo and busted through bureaucratic barriers before Agile was in vogue. [0] It's a true story of a group of young engineers that created a new system for mission control that would enable missions for years to come, while the thought of it was lambasted by management. But one quote that popped out to me was: > By taking action that challenged the established culture of their organization, the Pirates innovated new mission control capabilities for NASA, resulting in the group’s first project, Real-Time Data Systems (RTDS), which took a year’s worth of off-hours time to create. >>>>Which took a year's worth of off-hours time to create. So the team performed this groundbreaking work with no extra pay, on top of their other duties. This was construed to be inspirational among my coworkers who brought it up. I can see it. It is really awesome, and I bet those engineers felt like they were on top of the world. But to me, this is almost crazy to think that - in today's world - working for a large business the size of NASA that you wouldn't be fairly compensated while doing such immensely valuable work far above your personal scope of duty - even if you have the best coworkers or love your work. Sure, in several industries this happens all the time (especially startups, where founders perform immense amounts of work with no pay with the hope of hitting gold), but in the big corporate, government, and defense contracting worlds this is not only discouraged, but often disallowed. [0] https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/how-a-group-of-nasa-renegades-transformed-mission-control/ https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/how-a-group-of-nasa-rene...

tra3 7y ago
What a great counter example. Very inspiring, thank you for bringing it up. I'm having a tough time elucidating and expressing my feelings on this subject. I've gone through burnout, which was largely self inflicted tbh, with silent approval of management.. I feel like the parent poster, but I don't want to. I guess I'm struggling with the notion that employee-employer relationship is zero sum. Hobbies don't typically yield direct monetary benefits, yet I still partake. I dont't think this is going anywhere, I'm just thinking out loud.
nathan_compton 7y ago
NASA isn't a private corporation. In that scenario, compensation is a practical reality, but there isn't any profound reason to not be invested in your job. In the private sector your job is nothing more than making profit for your boss. If, for some reason, you did something on your own initiative that made the world a better place and your boss didn't profit from it, they should be mad at you for skipping a chance for them to make money. Consequently, the only rational thing is to give them as little value for as much compensation as possible.

drdeadringer 7y ago

You can enjoy what you're doing. You can like your coworkers. At the same time, your boss(es) can be from hell. What is or isn't a "depressing take" now mushrooms into a further discussion.