4 ms·

The pigeonhole principle [0] is also becoming more of a factor due to the sheer volume of production. Especially in domains with a limited branching factor. Fo

The pigeonhole principle [0] is also becoming more of a factor due to the sheer volume of production. Especially in domains with a limited branching factor. For example, in music, if you only have 12 tones in an octave to play with, along with variable length and spacing, you start to run out of "good" melodies under 20 notes after 400 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeonhole_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeonhole_principle

throwaway1777 6y ago
Sure, but that’s not accounting for rhythm, different instruments, etc.
- symplee 6y ago
  Isn't this just increasing the branching factor? How hard will it be to find new melodies a million years from now? Easier than today, the same, or harder?
  - mettamage 6y ago
    It is, but it is increasing the branching factor by much more than finding all the "good" melodies in 400 years. Here's a good example of music that stands on it own right despite using the melody of despacito: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqReeTV_vk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqReeTV_vk - I'm pretty sure that most people at HN will appreciate this one whether they like despacito or not :)
  - cjohnson318 6y ago
    I think the relevant thing about the pigeon hole principle is that it deals with fundamentally discrete things. Sure, there is a finite number of scores using twelve notes in a finite period of time, but that's just not how we judge or compare music. I would say that there's so many branching factors in music that quantifying one piece is akin to measuring a coastline; the smaller your scale, the longer the coastline. Beyond timbre, there's other cultural factors like, who wrote the music. In a million years we might have umpteen songs with the same score, but they'll still occupy different pigeon holes in the collective consciousness.
mettamage 6y ago
Counter example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Op1TaXmCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Op1TaXmCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqW-Hfk0FN0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqW-Hfk0FN0 (an electro swing remix) Timbre and genre are very important things. The remix doesn't need to be as good as the original since it's way better suited to be mixed in an electro swing DJ set. The different context creates an entirely new niche in which the original has no place. Disclaimer: I googled for something random and sifted a bit through the results - not a fan of dubstep remixes, so I chose electro swing instead :)
bumby 6y ago
Is that a by-product of capitalism incentivizing production which incentivizes specialization?
tenebrisalietum 6y ago
Well there's this genre of music called noise that uses all frequencies in the audio domain. Should be good for a while.
TrinaryWorksToo 6y ago
Like this lawyer did? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJtm0MoOgiU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJtm0MoOgiU

throwaway1777 6y ago

Sure, but that’s not accounting for rhythm, different instruments, etc.

symplee 6y ago
Isn't this just increasing the branching factor? How hard will it be to find new melodies a million years from now? Easier than today, the same, or harder?
- mettamage 6y ago
  It is, but it is increasing the branching factor by much more than finding all the "good" melodies in 400 years. Here's a good example of music that stands on it own right despite using the melody of despacito: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqReeTV_vk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqReeTV_vk - I'm pretty sure that most people at HN will appreciate this one whether they like despacito or not :)
- cjohnson318 6y ago
  I think the relevant thing about the pigeon hole principle is that it deals with fundamentally discrete things. Sure, there is a finite number of scores using twelve notes in a finite period of time, but that's just not how we judge or compare music. I would say that there's so many branching factors in music that quantifying one piece is akin to measuring a coastline; the smaller your scale, the longer the coastline. Beyond timbre, there's other cultural factors like, who wrote the music. In a million years we might have umpteen songs with the same score, but they'll still occupy different pigeon holes in the collective consciousness.

mettamage 6y ago

Counter example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Op1TaXmCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Op1TaXmCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqW-Hfk0FN0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqW-Hfk0FN0 (an electro swing remix) Timbre and genre are very important things. The remix doesn't need to be as good as the original since it's way better suited to be mixed in an electro swing DJ set. The different context creates an entirely new niche in which the original has no place. Disclaimer: I googled for something random and sifted a bit through the results - not a fan of dubstep remixes, so I chose electro swing instead :)

bumby 6y ago

Is that a by-product of capitalism incentivizing production which incentivizes specialization?

tenebrisalietum 6y ago

Well there's this genre of music called noise that uses all frequencies in the audio domain. Should be good for a while.

TrinaryWorksToo 6y ago

Like this lawyer did? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJtm0MoOgiU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJtm0MoOgiU